# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 161
### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3201 "2022-03-24T03:06:46Z")
Does Pootin’ have any ability to have loyalists use nuclear weapons independently of the presumably safeguarded chain of command? Like maybe a missile sub officered by handpicked cronies, or the ability to release control of tactical nukes to field units, or even the Russian equivalent of _Doctor Strangelove_’s “Plan R”?
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3202 "2022-03-24T03:32:17Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> I’m afraid that missing Russian soldiers are more like this:
>
> [How Ukraine swaps living soldiers for dead Russians](https://kyivindependent.com/national/how-%E2%80%8B%E2%80%8Bukraine-swaps-living-soldiers-for-dead-russians/)
That article surprised me. It seems like Russia is trying to deny the numbers of dead. Ukraine POW Exchanges for Russian bodies goes against that policy. Its probably the front line Unit commanders that care about their fallen men.
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### Author:  [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3203 "2022-03-24T03:33:17Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> I’m afraid that missing Russian soldiers are more like this:
>
> [How Ukraine swaps living soldiers for dead Russians](https://kyivindependent.com/national/how-%E2%80%8B%E2%80%8Bukraine-swaps-living-soldiers-for-dead-russians/)
Wow, trading live POWs for corpses. The higher Russian casualty counts become a lot more believable with that news.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3204 "2022-03-24T03:38:40Z")
> [@romansperson](#):
>
> > **Russian mobilization efforts are likely becoming urgent given Russian losses in the war.** The _Wall Street Journal_ cites an unnamed NATO official claiming that Russia has lost as many as 40,000 troops killed, wounded, or missing of the roughly 190,000 deployed to invade Ukraine.[2] That assessment, which is plausible given previous estimates of Russian combat deaths, must be considered in the context of the assessment offered by an unnamed Department of Defense official on March 21 that Russia had committed a high proportion of its available battalion tactical groups to the war already.[3] The protracting pause of Russian offensive operations in Ukraine and increasing anecdotal reporting of breakdowns in the morale and capability of Russian combat units all accord with these assessments. These reports and assessments collectively suggest that Russia may not be able to find new combat power with which to regain offensive momentum for weeks or even months.
>
> 40,000 killed, wounded or missing? Holy crap.
If my math isn’t mistaken, this means that on a deaths-per-day basis, Russia is suffering losses over **400x** worse than what America suffered in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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### Author:  [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3205 "2022-03-24T04:49:41Z")
It’s almost like they are trying to set a record for ‘futility in war’ or something.
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### Author:  [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3206 "2022-03-24T04:52:51Z")
There’s a lot of very stiff competition in that category. I can’t seem them winning there either.
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### Author:  [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3207 "2022-03-24T05:42:29Z")
[Putin loses his 15TH top commander as Ukraine continues to take out elite troops: Colonel is latest to die as Russia suffers worst loss of military leaders since World War Two](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10642413/Putins-15th-commander-killed-Ukrainian-forces-say-worst-deaths-brass-WWII.html)
I wonder if the Ukraine has issued their own [most wanted deck.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most-wanted_Iraqi_playing_cards)
I dunno. Maybe don’t wear rank insignia outside of secure buildings. Or at all?
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3208 "2022-03-24T05:48:39Z")
Explosions and big fire at the Russian-controlled port of Berdyansk.
Sabotage? Accident?
[ ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOl3ERtXsAEgoqN?format=jpg&name=900x900)
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3209 "2022-03-24T05:53:03Z")
This seems to be location of fire:
>
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3210 "2022-03-24T06:07:58Z")
Lots of secondary explosions. Maybe ammo burning up.
>
Difficult to speculate whether this is Russian incompetence or Ukrainian brilliance, but it surely can’t be good for Russian supplies in the south-east.
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3211 "2022-03-24T06:31:28Z")
>
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3212 "2022-03-24T06:45:28Z")
>
>
> ELINT News @ELINTNews
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3213 "2022-03-24T06:46:46Z")
I’m not sure how the Ukrainians could have done it. It’s deep into enemy-“controlled” territory on the Sea of Azov, around which the only remaining Ukrainian-controlled area is Mariupol, up the coast, which is obviously besieged.
An air strike would seem risky, and I’m not sure whether Ukraine has missiles to do this sort of mission at this range.
If it was the Ukrainians, it’s pretty epic whichever way it was done.
If it was a Russian smoking a cigarette by some fuel barrels, then that would also seem conceivable.
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3214 "2022-03-24T06:51:44Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> I’m not sure whether Ukraine has missiles to do this sort of mission at this range.
If it was a Tochka-U (SS-21) missile, then it has a range of 100km or more.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3215 "2022-03-24T06:54:30Z")
Yes, was just looking at Wikipedia. It says the OTR-21 Tochka third variant has a range of 185 km (115 mi), so that’s well within range of Ukrainian-controlled territory to the north.
> **[OTR-21 Tochka](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OTR-21_Tochka)**
>
> Pages for logged out editors learn more
>
>
> OTR-21 Tochka (Russian: оперативно-тактический ракетный комплекс (ОТР) «Точка» ("point"); English: Tactical Operational Missile Complex "Tochka") is a Soviet tactical ballistic missile. Its GRAU designation is 9K79; its NATO reporting name is SS-21 Scarab. It is transported in a 9P129 vehicle and raised prior to launch. It uses an inertial guidance system.
> The OTR-21 forward deployment to East Germany began in 1981, replacing the earlier Luna-M...
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3216 "2022-03-24T06:59:45Z")
Could be the Orsk. There’s only three ships in its class in active service. Not sure where the other two are.
> **[Tapir-class landing ship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alligator-class_landing_ship)**
>
> Pages for logged out editors learn more
>
>
> The Soviet designation Project 1171 (Tapir-class) landing ship (NATO reporting name: Alligator) is a class of Soviet / Russian general purpose, beachable amphibious warfare ships (Soviet classification: large landing ship, Russian: БДК, большой десантный корабль).
> In Soviet post-World War II analysis of amphibious operations, the recommendation was made that the Soviet Navy should start building dedicated amphibious ships. Among the first ships...
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3217 "2022-03-24T07:03:38Z")
[It seems so](https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1506887228550795266?s=20&t=2tsObimpsK0r5m7KTV1aPQ)
[ ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOmJ8hJWUAYfTMx?format=jpg&name=small)
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3218 "2022-03-24T07:12:44Z")
>
[ ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOmH3MEXoAAn-6Y?format=jpg&name=small)
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3219 "2022-03-24T07:22:57Z")
Wikipedia suggests that there were only three Russian Navy landing ships of this size in active service in the Black Sea Fleet. Now there are two (both Ropucha class).
> **[List of active Russian Navy ships | Landing ships](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Russian_Navy_ships#Landing_ships)**
>
> (summary, 62 ships total)
Here’s a Russian invader gushing about gaining control of the Berdyansk port earlier this week:
> [@](#):
>
> “It is hard to overestimate the possibilities of using this port,” said the website of the Russian armed forces news outlet Zvezda (Star).
>
> “Now the southern flank of the special operation can receive everything necessary at any time, including equipment and ammunition.”
> **[Russian Landing Ship Docks in Ukraine](https://gcaptain.com/russian-landing-ship-docks-ukraine/)**
>
> Update: Russian Landing Ship ‘Orsk’ Destroyed at Port of Berdiansk, Ukraine Claims March 21 (Reuters) – Russia’s armed forces said on Monday they had docked a large, beachable landing support ship, the...
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3220 "2022-03-24T07:23:24Z")
At least four Russian warships were [seen](https://twitter.com/sputnikato/status/1506879303325204482) sailing rapidly away from from Berdyansk.
Their cargos were obviously destined for the attack on Mariupol, so this will be a setback for capturing it. Especially if they lost a lot of ammunition and fuel.
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