# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 162
### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3221 "2022-03-24T07:29:35Z")
And the report from Ukrinform:
> **[Russian landing ship destroyed in Ukraine’s port of Berdiansk](https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3438353-russian-landing-ship-destroyed-in-ukraines-black-sea-port-of-berdiansk.html)**
>
> Near the port of Berdyansk on the morning of March 24, the Ukrainian Navy destroyed a Russian large landing ship of Russian troops. — Ukrinform.
> As reported earlier, Russian invaders see the port of Berdiansk as strategically important for delivering equipment, ammunition, and manpower to the southern regions of Ukraine.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3222 "2022-03-24T07:30:16Z")
It feels like Berdyansk is going to be in range of Tochka missiles fired from Ukrainian-controlled territory for some time to come, maybe forever.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3223 "2022-03-24T07:42:07Z")
[Pictures of burning ship](https://twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1506895584954920962).
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3224 "2022-03-24T07:51:05Z")
There are also reports that a warehouse on the docks containing ammunition and fuel was destroyed. That would explain the size of the explosion.
[ ](https://i.postimg.cc/9FzVLbLT/image.png)
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3225 "2022-03-24T07:59:52Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> Difficult to speculate whether this is Russian incompetence or Ukrainian brilliance
This kind of sums up a big chunk of this war. It may well be both.
It’s hard to tell from the length and quality of the videos, but I would have expected a lot more explosions from an ammunition supply ship. It seems more likely it was a landing ship for armored vehicles.
And now I see the newer posts are confirming what I thought.
I’ll leave this post just so I can say Happy Birthday! to @kenobi_65 and @Lumpy. Congratulations, you are looking pretty good as you approach your dotage!
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3226 "2022-03-24T08:54:12Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#):
>
> If they are alive and missing and have not surrendered, wouldn’t they mostly be living off the land AKA behaving like criminals? If so, I suspect Ukrainians would call the police and said missing would soon become prisoners.
That’s presuming there’s enough civilization intact in their area to have effective police. If police are not a realistic option then I suspect older and more directly violent means will be used to deal with someone looting in a war-torn village.
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### Author:  [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3227 "2022-03-24T09:03:09Z")
Three (of the four) French SSBNs are at sea. Usually only two at a time are. I suppose one will come in shortly for supplies. Still, this seems alarming.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3228 "2022-03-24T11:03:53Z")
Ukraine has missiles, but do they have precision guided missiles? Hitting a ship in port would be quite a feat with old Soviet missiles.
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3229 "2022-03-24T11:06:32Z")
If it’s a Russian rocket hitting a Russian ship, maybe they just set it free and it found its own way home.
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### Author:  [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3230 "2022-03-24T11:26:24Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> > [@PhillyGuy](#):
> >
> > If they are alive and missing and have not surrendered, wouldn’t they mostly be living off the land AKA behaving like criminals? If so, I suspect Ukrainians would call the police and said missing would soon become prisoners.
>
> That’s presuming there’s enough civilization intact in their area to have effective police. If police are not a realistic option then I suspect older and more directly violent means will be used to deal with someone looting in a war-torn village.
I heard a first-hand account of exactly how they dealt with a young German soldier on the lam caught stealing food from a French village. No cops.
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3231 "2022-03-24T11:29:06Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Ukraine has missiles, but do they have precision guided missiles? Hitting a ship in port would be quite a feat with old Soviet missiles.
Ukraine has Tochka-U missiles which they have modified for increased accuracy.
> **[Ukraine modifies Tochka-U short range ballistic missile](https://frontierindia.com/ukraine-modifies-tochka-u-short-range-ballistic-missile/)**
>
> Ukraine on 29 July tested an modified a Tochka-U (OTR-21 Tochka or SS-21 Scarab) solid-fueled battlefield short-range
The accuracy of the 1990’s Russian version was 70m [circular error probable](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_error_probable) (CEP). Probably the Ukrainians have been able to improve that accuracy considerably with modern technology.
The range of the 1990’s Russian version was 185 km (115 mi).
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### Author:  [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3232 "2022-03-24T12:45:17Z")
Yeah. Not to go too much farther with this particular tangent, but in most cases just cycling the printer’s power (off - on) will end the madness:
> **[What to Do When Your Printer Won't Delete a Job?](https://smallbusiness.chron.com/printer-wont-delete-job-57198.html)**
>
> What to Do When Your Printer Won't Delete a Job?. Sometimes you make a mistake sending a file to a printer. Maybe you sent a document to the wrong printer, maybe you printed the wrong version of a file or maybe you sent a 500-page report to a rapid...
But I, too, was hoping that tens of thousands of printers, across a vast geographic area, each had one or two copies of this document printed.
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### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3233 "2022-03-24T13:11:15Z")
> [@DPRK](#):
>
> I heard a first-hand account of exactly how they dealt with a young German soldier on the lam caught stealing food from a French village. No cops.
If private citizens murder a foreign soldier in a situation that’s not self-defense, is it considered a war crime, or just a crime?
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3234 "2022-03-24T13:18:26Z")
Probably doesn’t go through the legal system that often.
Probably varies by country also.
Also matters if the victim was still in uniform or not.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3235 "2022-03-24T14:04:09Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> If private citizens murder a foreign soldier in a situation that’s not self-defense, is it considered a war crime, or just a crime?
They’re generally considered heroic partisans.
Bear in mind that in war, private citizens killing enemy troops is very much a “man bites dog” situation. The reverse is far more common.
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### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3236 "2022-03-24T14:13:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> They’re generally considered heroic partisans.
>
> Bear in mind that in war, private citizens killing enemy troops is very much a “man bites dog” situation. The opposite is far more common.
Killing enemy soldiers who are actively serving the interests of the enemy is one thing, but I was thinking of the situation described upthread where the enemy soldier has laid down his arms (but is still wearing his enemy uniform, so clearly not an ordinary citizen) and is begging or stealing food from the local civilian populace.
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### Author:  [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3237 "2022-03-24T14:23:19Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> Killing enemy soldiers who are actively serving the interests of the enemy is one thing, but I was thinking of the situation described upthread where the enemy soldier has laid down his arms (but is still wearing his enemy uniform, so clearly not an ordinary citizen) and is begging or stealing food from the local civilian populace.
How is this “laid down his arms evidenced”? Don’t you need to actually make some action to surrender?
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### Author:  [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3238 "2022-03-24T14:30:32Z")
Ukraine claims its navy is responsible for the explosion in Berdyansk:
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep-sWkbPNwk)
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3239 "2022-03-24T14:30:33Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> Killing enemy soldiers who are actively serving the interests of the enemy is one thing, but I was thinking of the situation described upthread where the enemy soldier has laid down his arms (but is still wearing his enemy uniform, so clearly not an ordinary citizen) and is begging or stealing food from the local civilian populace.
I can’t imagine a government prosecuting its own civilians for killing invaders, no matter what the circumstances. How much public support do you think that would have?
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### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2022, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3240 "2022-03-24T14:32:22Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#):
>
> How is this “laid down his arms evidenced”? Don’t you need to actually make some action to surrender?
I’m thinking about a situation where if the soldier were replaced with an ordinary citizen, it would be a clear case of murder. IOW, the soldier isn’t carrying a weapon or presenting an imminent threat of violence.
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