# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 167
### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3321 "2022-03-25T02:37:03Z")
Old style Artillery can devestate cities. It takes longer compared to missiles. Missiles blow up a bigger area
Russia’s old Cold War munitions can still kill a lot of people.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3322 "2022-03-25T02:44:11Z")
> [@silenus](#):
>
> The Ukrainians would just _love_ that. Launch a strike, then when the Russian Air Farce responds, use all those nice MANPADS the West has sent them.
Man-portable SAMs aren’t especially effective against fast-moving jet bombers. For those you’re better off with a proper SAM like S-300.
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### Author:  [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3323 "2022-03-25T03:14:58Z")
Yeah, the fact that they have large numbers of people who aren’t really trained able to patrol and watch rear areas is huge and allows them to concentrate their available active military. If this wears on, they’ll eventually be trained.
On top of that, Ukraine has about 400K veterans that have combat experience in the Donbass region. Most of them weren’t currently organized and have a gap between their service and now, but they’ll be able to be re-trained a lot faster than green recruits. It seems the Russians have played a hand in making their worst enemy.
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3324 "2022-03-25T03:27:49Z")
Under the category of saying exactly the opposite of what they mean, [the Russians are opening a “humanitarian” corridor](https://www.zee5.com/articles/russia-to-open-humanitarian-corridor-for-foreign-ships-to-leave-ukrainian-ports) to allow foreign ships in port to leave. It will allow the Russians to kill Ukrainans harder, without having to shoot around the boats that might worsen Russia’s international standing should one take a stray shell.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3325 "2022-03-25T05:08:47Z")
I didn’t follow Russia’s actions in Syria. I knew Aleppo was completely bombed out. I didn’t understand that Russia is largely responsible.
Turns out they’re doing almost the same strategy in Ukraine. I’m beginning to realize this is closer to a civil war. It’s especially bizarre the Ukrainians call family in Russia and they’re personal war experiences aren’t believed.
> [@](#):
>
> Some observers predicted Putin would not import the tactics of Syria to [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) because close ties of family and friendship straddle the border. While Syrians were distant, anonymous victims to most in Russia, the people of Mariupol include relatives, classmates and former colleagues.
> But over the past month, the targets have been the same: hospitals, schools, markets, bread queues, a theatre. Russian troops have promised escapes and then attacked civilians on the roads.
>
> Below is an examination of five key elements of the “Syria playbook”, looking at how the tactics from one war have been imported to devastating effect into another.
> **[How Russia is using tactics from the Syrian playbook in Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/24/how-russia-is-using-tactics-from-the-syrian-playbook-in-ukraine)**
>
> Entire settlements reduced to rubble, attacks on civilian targets and the bombing of refugee exit routes were all part of Moscow’s brutal Syria campaign
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3326 "2022-03-25T05:22:25Z")
American volunteer:
> **[US Army veteran from Connecticut joins Ukraine's fight against Russia](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10650055/US-military-veteran-Connecticut-joins-Ukraines-military-fight-Russia.html)**
>
> James Vasquez, 47, arrived in Ukraine earlier this month, and is now fighting shoulder-to-shoulder with the country's military against Vladimir Putin's invading forces.
[https://twitter.com/jmvasquez1974](https://twitter.com/jmvasquez1974)
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### Author:  [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3327 "2022-03-25T06:56:54Z")
The FBI is microtargeting Russian speakers who are standing right outside the Russian Embassy in Washington with ads in Russian telling them to contact the FBI if they have anything to tell them.
> **[FBI trolls Russian embassy with geotargeted ads for disgruntled spies](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/03/fbi-trolls-russian-embassy-with-geotargeted-ads-for-disgruntled-spies/)**
>
> “Speak plainly… we are ready to listen.”
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3328 "2022-03-25T09:04:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> I’m beginning to realize this is closer to a civil war.
Please do not buy into Russia propaganda.
It is NOT a civil war!
The fact that some people have relatives on both sides of the border is irrelevant - it’s quite common in Europe for people to have relatives in other countries nearby. It’s like saying because many families have members on both sides of the US/Canadian border, or US/Mexican border, the US and Canada are the same country or the US and Mexico are the same country. They aren’t.
Ukraine is its own country.
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3329 "2022-03-25T09:16:54Z")
It’s a civil war in the same way an enraged father beating up his seven-year-old is a domestic dispute.
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3330 "2022-03-25T10:24:23Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> It’s like saying because many families have members on both sides of the US/Canadian border, or US/Mexican border, the US and Canada are the same country or the US and Mexico are the same country.
Or, more important, if the US invaded Alberta to take over the tar sands it was a civil war because most Canadians and most Americans speak English and have a common heritage, Britain.
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### Author:  [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3331 "2022-03-25T11:21:49Z")
> [@silenus](#):
>
> the Russians have very good ASW capabilities.
Yeah, and they have a kick-ass air force and army also.
It may be as good as advertised, and it may also be almost entirely on paper.
That said, I don’t NATO should be using its submarines actively in support Ukraine.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3332 "2022-03-25T12:41:52Z")
I mispoke in referring to civil war and this conflict. I overstretched in trying to make sense of this brutal war.
The Guardian article (comparing Syria and the Ukraine tactics) makes Russian strategy more understandable. Russia would do exactly the same thing in Georgia or any of the Baltic countries. Putin has to be stopped before this tragedy goes any further.
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### Author:  [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3333 "2022-03-25T14:07:09Z")
From The Guardian’s live blog:
> Russia to focus on Donbas region - Russian Interfax news agency
> **Russia** will focus on what it calls the complete “liberation” of **Ukraine** ’s **Donbas** region and does not rule out the possibility of storming blockaded Ukrainian cities, according to the Russian news agency Interfax, citing the defence ministry and army.
> The defence ministry said Russia had been considering two options for its so-called “special operation” in Ukraine – one solely within the self-proclaimed separatist republics in Donbas and the other on the whole territory of [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine), Interfax reported.
So it looks like they are maneuvering themselves into position to dial back their ambitions. Donbas and Crimea. Wonder how that’ll go down with the Ukranians.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3334 "2022-03-25T15:05:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> The Guardian article (comparing Syria and the Ukraine tactics) makes Russian strategy more understandable. **Russia would do exactly the same thing in Georgia** or any of the Baltic countries. Putin has to be stopped before this tragedy goes any further.
Putin & Company _already did that_ [to Georgia, back in 2008](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War). The world shrugged and moved on.
As I keep telling people, this bullshit in Ukraine is not the first time Putin has done this sort of thing
Chechya 1994
Chechya 1999
Georgia 2008
Crimea 2014
Syria 2015
This is not sudden, this has been a long time coming but those other wars, those other dead civilians and bombed cities did not grasp the attention of NATO or the West. Why? Lots of possible reasons: too far away, no ties to those places, the inhabitants weren’t European, or were Muslim or not White enough, or… well, those crimes were ignored. And here we are. No doubt Putin is wondering why THIS time we’re making such a fuss about something that’s been going on for 30 years.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3335 "2022-03-25T15:39:33Z")
When I hear Putin’s ‘peace proposals’, I imagine Zelenskyy saying this:
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27KuAkfVg7Q)
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### Author:  [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3336 "2022-03-25T15:42:14Z")
Ha!
From the Guardian live blog:
> **Ukrainian** forces may have more main battle tanks and they had at the start of **Russian** invasion, my colleague Dan Sabbagh reports, because they’ve been remarkably successful at acquiring Russian vehicles (with the help of a few farmers).
> That’s according to western officials, who confirm a 7th Russian general was killed and that a brigade commander was killed by his own troops “as a consequence of the scale of losses that had been taken by his brigade”.
> _More on the Russian commander officials believe was killed by his own troops. The belief is he was “run over”. Was the commander of 37th motor rifle brigade._
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3337 "2022-03-25T15:55:59Z")
> [@romansperson](#):
>
> More on the Russian commander officials believe was killed by his own troops. The belief is he was “run over”. Was the commander of 37th motor rifle brigade.
Has Colonel Yuri Medvedev died of his injuries? Last I saw, his legs were seriously injured.
ETA: I guess I should have googled better.
> **[Russian commander deliberately run over by own soldiers has DIED](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10652501/Russian-commander-deliberately-run-tank-soldiers-DIED.html)**
>
> Western officials believe Colonel Yuri Medvedev was brutally taken out after his 37th Motor Rifle Brigade suffered huge losses.
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### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3338 "2022-03-25T16:04:36Z")
I genuinely don’t know if that’s admirable or not. If his children weren’t adults I’d think less of him, I suppose.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3339 "2022-03-25T16:06:44Z")
> [@romansperson](#):
>
> > **Ukrainian** forces may have more main battle tanks and they had at the start of **Russian** invasion, my colleague Dan Sabbagh reports, because they’ve been remarkably successful at acquiring Russian vehicles (with the help of a few farmers).
Here are the latest Oryx figures, documenting open source vehicle losses.
Russia vehicle losses - 1847, of which: destroyed: 910, damaged: 35, abandoned: 228, captured: 674
Ukraine vehicle losses - 540, of which: destroyed: 206, damaged: 16, abandoned: 37, captured: 281
Russia loses 1847 vehicles, gains 281 captured = NET - 1566 vehicles
Ukraine loses 540 vehicles, gains 674 captured = NET + 134 vehicles
So, according to the Oryx count, the Ukrainians have more vehicles than they started with, through capturing enemy vehicles. The Oryx figures will not represent a complete and accurate picture, of course.
Now, looking at tanks specifically.
Russia tank losses - 289, of which destroyed: 122, damaged: 4, abandoned: 41, captured: 122
Ukraine tank losses - 77, of which destroyed: 26, abandoned: 9, captured: 40
Russia loses 289 tanks, gains 40 captured = NET - 249 tanks
Ukraine loses 77 tanks, gains 122 captured = NET + 45 tanks
Again, Ukraine’s tank numbers grow through capturing enemy tanks.
> **[Attack On Europe: Documenting Russian Equipment Losses During The Russian...](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html)**
>
> By Jakub Janovsky , naalsio26 , Aloha , Dan , Kemal , and Alexander Black This list only includes destroyed vehicles and equipment...
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3340 "2022-03-25T16:07:23Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> American volunteer:
>
> [US military veteran from Connecticut joins Ukraine's military to fight Russia | Daily Mail Online](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10650055/US-military-veteran-Connecticut-joins-Ukraines-military-fight-Russia.html)
>
> [https://twitter.com/jmvasquez1974](https://twitter.com/jmvasquez1974)
That’s admirable of him, but 47 is damned old to have to fight in the field as an infantryman.
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