# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 169
### Author:  [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3361 "2022-03-25T19:16:52Z")
Unless it’s a Russian sleight of hand it means the Ukrainian government has survived this invasion (at least for now). This is a major victory for Ukraine, though A LOT of fighting still to do. If Russia has a victorious phase two then they might change their mind about challenging Zelenskyy.
Of course Ukraine will obviously still battle for Dombas.
I also hope this means the end of the nightmare in Mariupol.
---
### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3362 "2022-03-25T19:25:08Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#):
>
> Unless it’s a Russian sleight of hand…
Unless?
I’d expect the Russians to keep shelling Ukrainian cities and trying to capture Mariupol, but framing their retreats as “tactical withdrawals having completed their objectives”.
---
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3363 "2022-03-25T19:30:22Z")
Excellent. It means Russia has already conceded half of defeat - it won’t be going after Kyiv or trying to take all of Ukraine anymore.
---
### Author:  [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3364 "2022-03-25T19:30:35Z")
Well the Russians are clearly managing expectations at home. They know they cannot win without unacceptable losses. So it seems pretty clear that they are looking for a consolation prize that they can try to claim as a victory. At this point I reckon Putin is just trying to save his job (and maybe his life). A military defeat or a bogged down campaign and he surely can’t survive.
---
### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3365 "2022-03-25T19:31:55Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> Excellent. It means Russia has already conceded half of defeat - it won’t be going after Kyiv
Just because they say that doesn’t mean they’re not still planning on encircling and destroying Kyiv. Nothing the Kremlin says is worth the electrons it took to display the words on your screen.
---
### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3366 "2022-03-25T19:36:58Z")
I’d agree that it indicates that the Russians have now accepted that they can’t conquer the whole of Ukraine and that they’ve recalibrated to just conquering the Donbas. Holding other Ukrainian territory would therefore be as capital in any peace negotiations, although it’s possible they might try and claim something in the south.
---
### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3367 "2022-03-25T19:40:12Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> Now I have this image of a Virginia class submarine with a draft of 32 feet stuck on the bottom of the sea.
thats where those Ukr. tractors come in handy …
---
### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3368 "2022-03-25T19:54:43Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#):
>
> I also hope this means the end of the nightmare in Mariupol.
Highly unlikely. Mariupol is in the Donbas region. If they are re-calibrating to settle on those provinces, they’re going to want it. [It was after all a target in the earlier separatist war.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_2015_Mariupol_rocket_attack)
---
### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3369 "2022-03-25T19:55:31Z")
> [@romansperson](#):
>
> So it looks like they are maneuvering themselves into position to dial back their ambitions. Donbas and Crimea. Wonder how that’ll go down with the Ukranians.
looks like their exit-ramp …
… our initial plan was to kill that huge mamut … but to be honest, the 3 little bunnies we cought were at least as tasty …
.
> [@Folly](#):
>
> Let’s tell them to feel free to skip the second phase while declaring it a success and move ahead to phase three which is retreating back to Russia with their tail between their legs.
or we could just fast forward to the part where he falls seriously ill in the bunker
---
### Author:  [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3370 "2022-03-25T20:01:54Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> If private citizens murder a foreign soldier in a situation that’s not self-defense, is it considered a war crime, or just a crime?
Depends on who wins. For example:
> **[Rüsselsheim massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%BCsselsheim_massacre)**
>
> The Rüsselsheim massacre was a war crime that involved the lynching and killing of six American airmen by townspeople of Rüsselsheim during World War II.
> The incident happened on August 26, 1944, two days after a Consolidated B-24 Liberator bomber of the United States Army Air Forces was shot down by heavy anti-aircraft fire over Hanover. Nine crew members (Sergeant William A. Dumont, Belly Gunner; Sergeant Sidney Eugene Brown, Tail Gunner; Sergeant Elmore L. Austin, Left Waist Gunner; Sergeant ...
---
### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3371 "2022-03-25T21:07:51Z")
Latest conflict update from the Institute for the Study of War:
> **[Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/ukraine-conflict-update-19)**
>
> Ukrainian officials remain firm that Russia must return Crimea and Donbas; the Kremlin increasingly claims Kyiv is stalling negotiations. Russia is unlikely to reduce its maximalist demands despite the failure of its initial military campaign....
---
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3372 "2022-03-25T21:15:24Z")
If Crimea’s population is heavily pro-Russia, is it really worth it for Ukraine to try to take it back? It would be a never-ending headache for the Ukrainian government.
---
### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3373 "2022-03-25T21:21:18Z")
From the latest Institute for the Study of War:
> Lavrov and Russian Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Maria Zakharova claimed that Ukraine is constantly changing its position under manipulation from the United States.
The Russians simply can NOT wrap their heads around the notion that Ukraine is its own country and not a puppet, can they?
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> If Crimea’s population is heavily pro-Russia, is it really worth it for Ukraine to try to take it back? It would be a never-ending headache for the Ukrainian government.
Do we actually know if Crimea is pro or anti Russia at this point? I’m sure as hell not taking the Kremlin’s word on that.
---
### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3374 "2022-03-25T21:27:56Z")
Maybe only third-best in Ukraine. The Ukrainian 137th Tractor Corps appears to be #2 at this point.
---
### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3375 "2022-03-25T21:33:07Z")
Here’s a Brookings Institution article on Crimea:
> **[Crimea: Six years after illegal annexation](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2020/03/17/crimea-six-years-after-illegal-annexation/)**
>
> Six years after Russia illegally annexed Crimea, Ukraine lacks the leverage to restore sovereignty over the region, but the West should not accept it since doing so would only encourage Russia to believe it can get away with annexing territory from...
---
### Author:  [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3376 "2022-03-25T22:09:56Z")
So what happened to the population of Crimea after the annexation? Russian loyalists were moved in and people who had been there for generations were encouraged to move out. Many of those were Crimean Tartars who had been expelled from the territory by Stalin and survived the ordeal, managed to return in 1989.
Russian propaganda claims Crimea to be rightfully the possession of Russia. There are Russian speakers there, so this must surely be the case. I don’t doubt they would treat the Baltic states, who suffered similar deportations during Stalins time, in the same manner.
I guess the temptation is for many other larger countries is to simply regard such territories not as nations with a discrete national identity, language and ethnicity, but convenient bargaining chips. A bone to toss to the hungry Russian bear?
Apparently many of the Crimean Tatars moved to Kyiv and they run some of the better restaurants. Similar, in that respect, to the Georgians in Moscow…until that other invasion turn things sour.
> After the annexation of Crimea by Russian Federation, Crimean Tatars are reportedly persecuted and discriminated by Russian authorities, including cases of [torture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture), [arbitrary detentions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrary_detention), [forced disappearances](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_disappearance) by Russian [security forces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_forces) and courts.
> **[Crimean Tatars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars#2014_Crimean_crisis)**
>
> Crimean Tatars (Crimean Tatar: къырымтатарлар, romanized: qırımtatarlar) or Crimeans (къырымлылар, qırımlılar) are a Turkic ethnic group and nation native to Crimea. The formation and ethnogenesis of Crimean Tatars occurred during the 13th–17th centuries, uniting Cumans, who appeared in Crimea in the 10th century, with other peoples who had inhabited Crimea since ancient times and gradually underwent Tatarization, including Greeks, Italians, Armenians, Goths, Sarmatians, and others.
> Crimean Ta...
---
### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3377 "2022-03-25T22:55:54Z")
> **[Ukrainian family: 11-year-old girl shot in face by Russian soldier | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/03/25/ukraine-childrens-hospital-lead-watson-pkg-vpx.cnn)**
>
> CNN's Ivan Watson reports from inside a children's ward in Ukraine and talks to an 11-year-old girl who was shot in the face by a Russian soldier.
---
### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3378 "2022-03-25T23:09:48Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#):
>
> Here is the full English transcript of the Russian military briefing outlining the second phase of their “operation”:
This explains the tank bunkers and minefields that appeared outside Keiv last week. The Russians will primarily focus on Donbas region. But, the troops outside Keiv aren’t leaving. They’re fortifying their position.
That’s completely unacceptable for Ukraine. They’ll be under threat for years and they’ll still lose access to the Azov Sea ports.
I’m not sure Ukraine has the offensive capability to retake their territory. They need more long range missiles and air power.
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3379 "2022-03-25T23:10:48Z")
> [@romansperson](#):
>
> So it looks like they are maneuvering themselves into position to dial back their ambitions. Donbas and Crimea. Wonder how that’ll go down with the Ukranians.
“This is my last territorial demand”.
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> Excellent. It means Russia has already conceded half of defeat - it won’t be going after Kyiv or trying to take all of Ukraine anymore.
Maybe not this time around.
---
### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2022, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3380 "2022-03-25T23:16:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> That’s completely unacceptable for Ukraine. They’ll be under threat for years and they’ll still lose access to the Azov Sea ports.
Russia will, if allowed to stay there, simply restart their offensive as soon as they resupply and come up with a better plan. They will come up with a bullshit excuse and attack as soon as possible.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=168)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=170)