>
> Max Colchester @MaximColch
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### Author:  [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3504 "2022-03-28T16:02:46Z")
> Why on earth would Ukraine agree to this?
Oh, I’m just spitballing here, and I freely admit I have no significant knowledge of the history of the region.
Negotiations always have to include compromise. This would let Russia claim “victory” and get them to cease hostilities. Ukraine would definitely “lose” in the short term, but I think they’d come out waaaay ahead long-term (which wouldn’t actually take that long, in my opinion).
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3505 "2022-03-28T16:10:27Z")
> [@Sauron](#):
>
> Negotiations always have to include compromise.
‘You pull out of Ukraine and pay reparations, and we won’t invade Russia.’
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3506 "2022-03-28T16:15:49Z")
it seems the war is now moving more into a attrition type of event - with russian rockets as main weapon (since they are often too far out for artillery to do the heavy destruction).
Do we have a feeling how many rockets the russians have (I seem to recall conflicting accounts, that they are running low on those - or were those just the smart ones?) …
Just trying to get a feeling for how “sustainable” russian rocket attacks are in time…
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3507 "2022-03-28T16:25:44Z")
> [@Sauron](#):
>
> Letting them “win” in the Donbass takes away almost every kinda-remotely-plausible-if-you-squint-and-hold-your-head-at-just-the-right-angle reason for their aggression.
Except that Putin has already said ALL of Ukraine is part of “Greater Russia,” so giving him Donbass, or for that matter Donbass, Luhansk, and Crimea won’t be enough.
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3508 "2022-03-28T16:29:41Z")
> Bellingcat can confirm that three members of the delegation attending the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on the night of 3 to 4 March 2022 experienced symptoms consistent with poisoning with chemical weapons.
Putin is really like a comic book / movie villain, isn’t he?
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### Author:  [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3509 "2022-03-28T16:31:53Z")
The story about Ukrainian negotiators and Abramovich being poisoned with chemical or biological weapons (a typical tactic of the FSB) is utterly despicable.
If this is true then why would Ukraine send anyone else to negotiate with the Russians ever again?
And it could also signal that Putin is going after a leading oligarch as an example to the rest. As I’ve said before, if you want to guess what Putin is going to do next, imagine what a gangster boss would do.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3510 "2022-03-28T16:34:37Z")
There is not a single reason for the West to withhold any form of non-nuclear aid from Ukraine by this point.
If the West is too chicken to intervene directly because of nukes, fine. But there’s not a single reason we should withhold this or that conventional armament (that the Ukrainians can easily use), or food, or fuel, from them at this point.
We need to stop this “Sending Stingers and Javelins is okay but bigger SAMs, fuel and food is too provocative” inane logic.
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3511 "2022-03-28T16:40:38Z")
> [@Cervaise](#):
>
> Why would any Western company return to doing business in Russia for the foreseeable future?
It appears to be not a matter of returning to doing business, rather, the FSB seized watches that were stock on hand in the warehouse or jewelry boutique inside Russia. Wares that the company was going to take back out of the country. but the federalskis got to them before they could.
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### Author:  [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3512 "2022-03-28T16:43:52Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#):
>
> The story about Ukrainian negotiators and Abramovich being poisoned with chemical or biological weapons (a typical tactic of the FSB) is utterly despicable.
And completely unsurprising. I was worried that they might try this.
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### Author:  [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3513 "2022-03-28T16:45:06Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> We need to stop this “Sending Stingers and Javelins is okay but bigger SAMs, fuel and food is too provocative” inane logic.
The logic behind that is that anything more complex than an infantry weapon would require more training than the Ukrainians have time for. That logic held a few weeks ago, I don’t know that it does at this point.
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3514 "2022-03-28T16:47:21Z")
> [@DPRK](#):
>
> Pretty much the idea in _Red Heat_ (where they kept going on about how his character was from Kiev), although the actual results left something to be desired in both English and in Russian.
Damn! How could I have missed an Arnold movie?
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> You’re out of touch with what Hollywood thinks is cool these days - they’ll probably cast skinny kids like Timothee Chalamet and Tom Holland who will make the _actual_ Ukrainian nerds look like Arnold in comparison.
Yeah, I admit I was trying to think of a younger generation, I just couldn’t come up with any names.
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> And that’s if we’re lucky - if we’re not, they’ll just cast Jesse Eisenberg
Argh! Shut your mouth. If that get’s traction we know who to blame.
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> There’s absolutely no way the Ukrainians would willingly cede the whole of the Donbas to Russia, and there’s absolutely no reason they should do so.
I agree. Ukraine should not need to cede land to appease Putin. I mentioned this way back at the beginning, but if Russia had only attacked the Donbas region successfully and stopped there, they probably could have kept that land with little in the way of sanctions. By attempting to take Ukraine as a whole they totally fucked up. And every day makes it worse.
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> [https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1508463513013997580](https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1508463513013997580)
Holy fuck! I hope they have something in the way of medical proof for this. Russia seems to be determined to disprove the old “poison is a women’s weapon” all by themselves.
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3515 "2022-03-28T16:50:52Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#):
>
> The story about Ukrainian negotiators and Abramovich being poisoned with chemical or biological weapons (a typical tactic of the FSB) is utterly despicable.
>
> If this is true then why would Ukraine send anyone else to negotiate with the Russians ever again?
>
> And it could also signal that Putin is going after a leading oligarch as an example to the rest. As I’ve said before, if you want to guess what Putin is going to do next, imagine what a gangster boss would do.
it was on march 6th when the ukr. negotiator Denys K. was killed the the Ukr. as a double-agent …
makes you wonder if there are any links …
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3516 "2022-03-28T17:03:21Z")
Full thread from Bellingcat:
> **[Thread by bellingcat: Bellingcat can confirm that three members of the d... -...](https://pingthread.com/thread/1508463513013997580)**
>
> Bellingcat can confirm that three members of the delegation attending the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on the night of 3 to 4 March 2022 experienced symptoms consistent with poisoning with chemical weapons. One of victims was Russian...
> According to two consulted CW experts and a doctor, the symptoms were most consistent with variants of porphyrin, organophosphates, or bicyclic substances. A definitive determination was not possible due to the absence of specialized laboratory equipment near the victims.
Shaun Walker of the Guardian has separately verified the poisoning incident.
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### Author:  [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3517 "2022-03-28T17:17:21Z")
> [@Al128](#):
>
> it was on march 6th when the ukr. negotiator Denys K. was killed the the Ukr. as a double-agent …
>
> makes you wonder if there are any links …
Good spot. The poisoning was two days before his death and not all the negotiators were affected.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3518 "2022-03-28T17:23:47Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> By attempting to take Ukraine as a whole they totally fucked up.
The very paradigm of biting off more than one can chew.
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3519 "2022-03-28T17:24:06Z")
> **[Roman Abramovich and Ukrainian Peace Negotiators Suffer Suspected Poisoning](https://www.wsj.com/articles/roman-abramovich-and-ukrainian-peace-negotiators-suffer-symptoms-of-suspected-poisoning-11648480493)**
>
> The Russian oligarch and at least two senior members of the Ukrainian team developed symptoms that people familiar with the matter blamed on hard-liners in Moscow who they said wanted to sabotage talks to end the war.
> The victims blamed the suspected attack on hard-liners in Moscow who they said wanted to sabotage talks to end the war. A person close to Mr. Abramovich said it wasn’t clear who had targeted the group.
> While the Kremlin says it is interested in pursuing a negotiated solution, presenters on popular talk shows on Russian state TV have said in recent days that any agreement with Mr. Zelensky would be a humiliation for Russia and said that Ukraine should be absorbed into the Russian state.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3520 "2022-03-28T17:25:37Z")
I hope the opposite of this meme does not happen.
> **[Zelenskyy making a selfie with Putin's corpse | Volodymyr Zelenskyy](https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2335962-volodymyr-zelenskyy)**
>
> See more 'Volodymyr Zelenskyy' images on Know Your Meme!
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