# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 177
### Author:  [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3521 "2022-03-28T17:25:42Z")
I’m not saying Russia didn’t do this, but I’m struggling to understand what they could hope to gain from it. Were the Ukraine negotiators (plus Abramovich) so key to Ukraine’s resistance that the effort would have failed if they all died? And would the West really have just shrugged if that had happened, as opposed to taking it as a major escalation and responding accordingly?
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#):
>
> > [@Al128](#):
> >
> > it was on march 6th when the ukr. negotiator Denys K. was killed the the Ukr. as a double-agent …
> >
> > makes you wonder if there are any links …
>
> Good spot. The poisoning was two days before his death and not all the negotiators were affected.
Could someone please explain this part a little more?
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### Author:  [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3522 "2022-03-28T17:26:52Z")
> [@eschereal](#):
>
> It appears to be not a matter of returning to doing business, rather, the FSB seized watches that were stock on hand in the warehouse or jewelry boutique inside Russia. Wares that the company was going to take back out of the country. but the federalskis got to them before they could.
Good luck getting those watches serviced once the internals start to wear out, or any part breaks.
In case you didn’t know, the watch manufacturers increasingly have a policy that their watches have to be returned to the factory for service. I am sure that they know all the serial numbers of watches sent to Russia.
> **[American Jewelers Cannot Hire/Employ USA Taxpaying Citizens Watchmakers If...](https://www.ofrei.com/page1567.html)**
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3523 "2022-03-28T17:27:01Z")
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> Could someone please explain this part a little more?
> **[Ukrainian official dead after accusations of ‘treason’ and working for Russia](https://7news.com.au/news/ukraine/competing-claims-emerge-after-ukraine-official-denis-kireev-accused-of-treason-shot-dead-in-street-c-5958770)**
>
> Barely a week after attending the first round of peace talks between Russia and Ukraine, images of Denis Kireev’s lifeless body began circulating.
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### Author:  [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3524 "2022-03-28T17:27:57Z")
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> I’m struggling to understand what they could hope to gain from it.
If it was a faction in the Kremlin (as opposed to Putin himself) entirely opposed to peace talks, then they have effectively sabotaged them for the forseeable future. Why would Ukraine send more negotiators?
And of course, Putin could also have been looking to sabotage them.
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### Author:  [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3525 "2022-03-28T17:29:53Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> My experience was the kids were more likely to overindulge and do stupid things being in the 18-21 year old age range mainly.
Tobacco was the vice I developed in the Air Force 40 years ago, I hadn’t considered all those troops going cold turkey. But, yeah, we all had some exposure to alcohol before we joined but most of us weren’t full blown alcoholics during our first term. You need more practice for that.
> [@Sauron](#):
>
> Isn’t Ukraine known for its grain production? I think Russia wants that, as well as easy and full access to Crimea / the Black Sea.
I think that’s what Putin wanted at the start, back when he expected Ukraine to roll over and give up. Now his Army is being shown to the border, his troops are running away, his Generals are committing suicide rather than being sent to the front and his people want their Facebook and Big Macs. I think he’s now insane with rage and doesn’t care about the grain or what the world thinks. He just wants Ukraine GONE.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3526 "2022-03-28T17:30:23Z")
Why is Roman Abramovich sanctioned? He’s risking his life trying to negotiate peace.
> **[UK sanctions Russian oligarch and Chelsea owner Roman Abramovich | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/10/sport/roman-abramovich-sanctions-uk-list-spt-intl/index.html)**
>
> The UK has added Russian oligarch and Chelsea FC owner Roman Abramovich to its list of sanctioned individuals as part of its efforts to "isolate" Russian President Vlamidir Putin following Russia's invasion of Ukraine -- throwing the sale of the...
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### Author:  [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3527 "2022-03-28T17:30:30Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> > [@Akaj](#):
> >
> > Could someone please explain this part a little more?
>
> [https://7news.com.au/news/ukraine/competing-claims-emerge-after-ukraine-official-denis-kireev-accused-of-treason-shot-dead-in-street-c-5958770](https://7news.com.au/news/ukraine/competing-claims-emerge-after-ukraine-official-denis-kireev-accused-of-treason-shot-dead-in-street-c-5958770)
OK, so Kireev was the one who poisoned the others and was executed for it? Sounds like the opening of a LeCarre novel.
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3528 "2022-03-28T18:10:39Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> According to two consulted CW experts and a doctor, the symptoms were most consistent with variants of porphyrin, organophosphates, or bicyclic substances. A definitive determination was not possible due to the absence of specialized laboratory equipment near the victims.
Well, so much for actual medical proof. From the article it sounds like they were diagnosed only on their reported symptoms. And it was easier to get a third party to bring chemical warfare experts in than to get these guys to a hospital? It says no sophisticated lab, but couldn’t they have taken blood samples etc?
This just went from a great piece of evidence of Russian intentions to a he said she said situation.
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#):
>
> Good spot. The poisoning was two days before his death and not all the negotiators were affected.
Yes, good spot. So much info coming out of this war I actually forgot about this. 🫢
> [@Bonum\_Legatum](#):
>
> Good luck getting those watches serviced once the internals start to wear out, or any part breaks.
From the sample pics, I would assume they will just chip out all the tiny diamonds on the watches to sell. Lose a lot of value that way.
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> OK, so Kireev was the one who poisoned the others and was executed for it? Sounds like the opening of a LeCarre novel.
This is probably one of those things we’ll never find out for decades, if at all. Russia won’t admit it and Ukraine has nothing to gain by admitting it.
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> [Russian soldiers raping and sexually assaulting women, says Ukraine MP | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/27/russian-soldiers-raping-and-sexually-assaulting-women-says-ukraine-mp)
I wish I could say I was surprised, but I’m not.
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> And not a single bit of body hair in evidence. Men no longer have chest hair it appears. 🤪
I don’t think Arnold or Stallone had body hair either. Bruce Willis was pretty hairy, tho.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3529 "2022-03-28T18:21:42Z")
I suspected this would happen. Just like Chechnya. The reports are horrific.
> **[Russian soldiers raping and sexually assaulting women, says Ukraine MP](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/27/russian-soldiers-raping-and-sexually-assaulting-women-says-ukraine-mp)**
>
> Maria Mezentseva said Ukraine will ‘not be silent’ about the attacks, which are considered war crimes
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3530 "2022-03-28T18:22:39Z")
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> You’re out of touch with what Hollywood thinks is cool these days - they’ll probably cast skinny kids like Timothee Chalamet and Tom Holland who will make the _actual_ Ukrainian nerds look like Arnold in comparison.
And not a single bit of body hair in evidence. Men no longer have chest hair it appears. 🤪
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3531 "2022-03-28T18:29:42Z")
> [@Sauron](#):
>
> Negotiations always have to include compromise.
True. Putin has to be able to claim a victory. Zelenskyy has offered to remain neutral and not join NATO for example. He could also concede all claims to Crimea, since that is a done deal anyway.
> [@Kent\_Clark](#):
>
> Except that Putin has already said ALL of Ukraine is part of “Greater Russia,” so giving him Donbass, or for that matter Donbass, Luhansk, and Crimea won’t be enough.
Yes. “This is my last Territorial demand”. Putin won’t stop until he is dead.
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3532 "2022-03-28T18:30:36Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#):
>
> Good spot. The poisoning was two days before his death and not all the negotiators were affected.
add on thought (armchair Sherlock Holmesing) … and there was suspiciously little “scandal” around the Ukr. shooting one of their own negotiators on the street… - normally that stuff is “headline-gold” for the tabloids
IIRC we even had a thread asking about how low key Denys K. went.
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### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3533 "2022-03-28T18:39:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> You’re out of touch with what Hollywood thinks is cool these days - they’ll probably cast skinny kids like Timothee Chalamet and Tom Holland who will make the _actual_ Ukrainian nerds look like Arnold in comparison.
_Sigh_ Anton Yelchin could have been perfect for this.
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3534 "2022-03-28T18:55:08Z")
> [@eschereal](#):
>
> It appears to be not a matter of returning to doing business, rather, the FSB seized watches that were stock on hand in the warehouse or jewelry boutique inside Russia.
Which in no way encourages a company to pick up where they left off once the fighting’s stopped and the diplomats have done their thing.
It reminds me of that story a few years ago where a visitor let Putin try on his Superbowl ring, and never got it back.
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3535 "2022-03-28T19:03:53Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> This just went from a great piece of evidence of Russian intentions to a he said she said situation.
Except that the people who said that it was poisoning with chemical weapons were two separate chemical weapons experts and a doctor.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3536 "2022-03-28T19:08:23Z")
Yeah, I only recently heard about that.
> **[Here's how Vladimir Putin stole a Super Bowl ring from the Patriots' Robert...](https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-how-vladimir-putin-stole-a-super-bowl-ring-from-the-patriots-robert-kraft/)**
>
> The Patriots owner only has three of his four Super Bowl rings. Putin has the other one
> “I took out the ring and showed it to [Putin], and he put it on and he goes, ‘I can kill someone with this ring,’” Kraft [said in 2013](http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patriots-robert-kraft-vladimir-putin-stole-my-super-bowl-ring/). “I put my hand out and he put it in his pocket, and three KGB guys got around him and walked out.”
>
> Despite the fact that Putin walked off with the ring, Kraft still wanted the $25,000 piece of jewelry returned. However, he ended up giving up on his quest to get the ring back when White House called and told Kraft that starting World War III over a Super Bowl ring probably wouldn’t be the best idea.
>
> “It would _really_ be in the best interest of US-Soviet relations if you meant to give the ring as a present,” Kraft said he was told on the White House call in 2005. “I really didn’t [want to]. I had an emotional tie to the ring, it has my name on it. I don’t want to see it on eBay. There was a pause on the other end of the line, and the voice repeated, ‘It would _really_ be in the best interest if you meant to give the ring as a present.’”
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### Author:  [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3537 "2022-03-28T19:12:18Z")
Heck, the Ukrainians should add returning the ring to their demands. Just so Putin can feel like he “won” when they relent on that demand.
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3538 "2022-03-28T19:19:01Z")
Putin and the ring:
[ ](https://i.postimg.cc/fy1Y4NNd/we-wants-it-we-needs-it-must-have-the-precious.jpg)
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### Author:  [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3539 "2022-03-28T20:15:22Z")
> [@scabpicker](#):
>
> Heck, the Ukrainians should add returning the ring to their demands. Just so Putin can feel like he “won” when they relent on that demand.
At this point I’m not sure Putin will feel like he won until he’s covered the earth in a second darkness.
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3540 "2022-03-28T20:35:34Z")
> [@scabpicker](#):
>
> Just so Putin can feel like he “won”
Letting Vlad “feel like he won” is a questionabe strategy.
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