# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 178
### Author:  [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3541 "2022-03-28T20:49:07Z")
Yeah, but I’ve seen it presented that he won’t stop unless he feels like there’s some sort of “win” he can present to the Russian people when it’s over. My take on it is “Why doesn’t he just lie about that, too?”
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3542 "2022-03-28T21:03:01Z")
It has to be balance between he needs a win he can sell the Russians to keep himself in power while making sure he knows, he lost and the West stands together against him if he tries invading any other neighbors.
This is all balanced against the nuclear threat of a dead man as out of power almost surely equals death for Putin.
At very least some sort of face saving out for Putin could save thousands of lives from his ordering the heavier shelling of cities.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3543 "2022-03-28T21:05:46Z")
> **[Mariupol evacuation corridors 'in the hands of the occupiers' as mayor tells...](https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/28/europe/mariupol-mayor-ukraine-occupiers-intl/index.html)**
>
> Ukrainian forces "continue to maintain circular defense" in the besieged Ukrainian city of Mariupol, the Ukrainian general staff said early Tuesday, even as Russian forces consolidated control around the southeastern port city.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3544 "2022-03-28T21:40:46Z")
I’m not sure if that necessarily means anything new. The Russians have been occupying much of the city for a while now. I’m not sure that means that there isn’t fighting still ongoing or that Mariupol has fallen.
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3545 "2022-03-28T22:10:54Z")
At this point a truce or peace treaty will be determined entirely by facts on the ground, which are still being negotiated. A large part of which will depend on how long the Russian army can continue operations given a deteriorating situation in morale, operational vehicles, munitions stocks, and Putin’s standing in the Kremlin in the face of ongoing sanctions.
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3546 "2022-03-28T22:53:19Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#):
>
> It has to be balance between he needs a win he can sell the Russians to keep himself in power while making sure he knows, he lost
Question is: is there, at this point, and in Putin’s mind, any such thing?
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### Author:  [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3547 "2022-03-28T22:55:19Z")
I wonder how the Russian army will be treated if they go back home.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3548 "2022-03-28T22:56:09Z")
That is a really good question. I hope someone has an answer to end the senseless slaughter as soon as possible.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3549 "2022-03-28T22:59:01Z")
If there is indeed some truce or armistice, it needs to be followed up immediately by NATO arming Ukraine to the teeth, so no further Russian aggression is possible.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 28, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3550 "2022-03-28T23:25:45Z")
The siege of Mariupol continues:
>
I think it could remain unconquered for some time to come, and who knows where the front line will be by then.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2022, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3551 "2022-03-29T00:33:59Z")
Zelenskiy is extremely effective at working diplomatic channels. He addressed the US Congress a few days ago. He spent today meeting other world leaders.
For a former actor & comedian Zelenskiy is very resourceful. Putin underestimated the Ukrainian President. I don’t believe Ukraine would get so much assistance without Zelenskiy’s persistence.
Guardian live blog
> [@](#):
>
> **Zelenskiy also described a “very active diplomatic day** ” after speaking with British prime minister Boris Johnson, Canadian prime minister Justin Trudeau, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, Italian prime minister Mario Draghi and the president of Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev.
>
> > We agreed with **Britain** to further support our defence and strengthen sanctions against the Russian Federation.
> >
> > **Canada** also supports a tougher response from the world to the catastrophe created by Russian troops in Ukrainian cities.
> >
> > In a conversation with **German** Chancellor Scholz, I also paid considerable attention to the need to increase sanction pressure on [Russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia).
> >
> > **Italy** has agreed to become one of the guarantors of Ukraine’s security in the relevant new system of guarantees that we are elaborating.”
>
> Zelenskiy said he will continue with talks tomorrow and during the week will speak in the parliaments of **Denmark** , **Norway** , the **Netherlands** , **Greece** and **Australia**.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2022, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3552 "2022-03-29T01:52:47Z")
> [@Sauron](#):
>
> My off-the-wall suggestion on a settlement: Allow Russia to keep the Donbass region and establish that ground link to Crimea. That lets Russia claim their stated goal of “de-nazifying” that region.
The problem is that that cuts Ukraine off from the sea, making it a land-locked country, which makes taking their grain to global markets that much more difficult. I’m sure the Russians would be happy to charge exorbitant fees for the Ukrainians to use their docks, right? Of course, there’s also the problem that the water that flows to Crimea flows through a canal in Ukraine which is easily blocked (in fact, the Ukrainians had done just that) and thus would deprive Crimea of fresh water for essentials like drinking.
If I had a vote (which I don’t) I’d say roll the Russians back to their 1991 borders and tell them to go f\*\*\* themselves but that’s just me.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2022, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3553 "2022-03-29T01:55:35Z")
> [@Sauron](#):
>
> Oh, I’m just spitballing here, and I freely admit I have no significant knowledge of the history of the region.
If you don’t have any knowledge of the history of the region then you really shouldn’t be throwing out speculations like that. Just MHO.
> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> > Bellingcat can confirm that three members of the delegation attending the peace talks between Ukraine and Russia on the night of 3 to 4 March 2022 experienced symptoms consistent with poisoning with chemical weapons.
>
> Putin is really like a comic book / movie villain, isn’t he?
Unfortunately… yes.
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### Author:  [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2022, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3554 "2022-03-29T01:58:50Z")
IMHO, Putin is a great example of how worthless thoughts and prayers actually are. I know I’m not the only person in the world sending my thoughts and prayers to him constantly.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2022, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3555 "2022-03-29T02:05:25Z")
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> I’m not saying Russia didn’t do this, but I’m struggling to understand what they could hope to gain from it. Were the Ukraine negotiators (plus Abramovich) so key to Ukraine’s resistance that the effort would have failed if they all died? And would the West really have just shrugged if that had happened, as opposed to taking it as a major escalation and responding accordingly?
There are a whole bunch of poisoning incidents, some fatal and some not, caused by Russia to which the West make little or no response. Why would the Russians think the West would give a damn about a few dead Ukrainians and a dead Russia oligarch when nothing had been done about those others?
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2022, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3556 "2022-03-29T02:05:32Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> For a former actor & comedian Zelenskiy is very resourceful.
Zelenskyy is playing the role of a lifetime.
Doing a damn good job of it, too.
(That isn’t meant in any way to disparage Zelenskyy. He chose this role; he could have ducked it.)
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### Author:  [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2022, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3557 "2022-03-29T02:27:18Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> If there is indeed some truce or armistice, it needs to be followed up immediately by NATO arming Ukraine to the teeth, so no further Russian aggression is possible
A good way of doing that would have NATO engaged in a series of huge NATO-Ukraine joint exercises (at Ukraine’s invitation) on a near-continuous basis, as justification for a NATO and NATO logistics presence in Ukraine.
This would be a good way of getting the Ukraine military integrated into NATO doctrine and operations.
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2022, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3558 "2022-03-29T03:56:19Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> The problem is that that cuts Ukraine off from the sea, making it a land-locked country, which makes taking their grain to global markets that much more difficult.
Not really. Even if the Russians somehow ended up with everything east of the Dnieper (which would indeed be crippling and unacceptable and far, far larger than just the Donbas region itself), they would still have the big container ports in the west like Odessa and its various satellites like Yuzhne and Chornomorsk. Also the main ship-building center at Mykolaiv.
A negotiated Russian ‘land link’ is probably a stickier diplomatic ask than either the Donbas or Crimea. It would likely by necessity include the Azov seaports of Mariuopol (which is already in the Donbas) and Berdyank (which isn’t) which traditionally have served to export Donbas production. But the the Dnieper estuary empties into the Black Sea near embattled Kherson, west of the Crimean peninsula.
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2022, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3559 "2022-03-29T06:07:08Z")
There is also a certain irony to Russia’s dogged pursuit of Crimea and Donbas (assuming at this point that Ukraine entire is no longer a realistic goal) in no small part for the ice-free ports, given that, as a consequence of this action, a large portion of world markets will be loath to trade with them.
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 29, 2022, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3560 "2022-03-29T06:20:19Z")
Two videos of Ukrainians playing music.
Ukrainian pianist plays Chopin in the ruins of her beautiful home.
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDUdK5SYa7w)
The Kharkiv Music Fest was scheduled for March 26. They played in the subway instead, which is being used as a bomb shelter.
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbZw9D46s7Q)
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