# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 186
### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3703 "2022-03-30T15:43:50Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#):
>
> Of course, if a few operatives crossed the border and blew up some railroad tracks, well, things like that happen…
Better yet, remove a few track bolts. After all, the reputation of Russian maintenance is somewhat poor now.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3704 "2022-03-30T15:44:20Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#):
>
> Not sure the Daily Mail is the best source for news; does someone have a more reputable source for this?
> **[Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu ‘holed up in nuclear bunker’](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russian-defence-minister-sergei-shoigu-holed-up-in-nuclear-bunker-0z88g7nrs)**
>
> Russia’s defence minister is ensconced in a nuclear bunker in the Ural mountains, according to investigators, after weeks of speculation about his conspicuous a
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3705 "2022-03-30T16:01:42Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> Can you give us some examples? Aggressor countries, that is, not attacked countries.
The United Kingdom, more than once. I know your response will be “oh but that example is different” but of course every example will be different in some way. (I’m also not sure why it necessarily matters who the aggressor is - the USA did not have a good first month in World War II.)
The larger power has more opportunity to regroup and adapt.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3706 "2022-03-30T16:11:19Z")
Article from 2020:
> [@](#):
>
> This may be a result of skepticism about major land warfare within the upper echelons of the military and Ministry of Defense. Former Russian senior officials and analysts interviewed by the RAND Corporation in 2017 unanimously dismissed the idea of orienting the Russian military on fighting major land wars with peer competitors. The decade of reform and modernization has enabled the military to capably conduct limited expeditionary operations, while modernization at the other end of the spectrum has secured Russia’s strategic nuclear forces on land, in the air, and in naval bastions. Russia’s military leaders seem to think the prospect of a major conventional war with NATO is highly unlikely.
>
> U.S. defense analysts and commentators have occasionally raised concerns about America’s inability to fight a long war. Yet without an operational reserve, Russia’s forces would actually be more brittle than NATO’s in a sustained conflict. Should Russia find itself in a major conventional war, it will fight with the military it has on hand. The Red Army’s “hordes” are long gone and the current manpower system has not yet fashioned a credible replacement.
> **[The Best or Worst of Both Worlds? | The Post-Soviet Post | CSIS](https://www.csis.org/blogs/post-soviet-post/best-or-worst-both-worlds)**
>
> The reformed and revitalized Russian military is increasingly powerful and proficient. However, Russia remains suspended between the large but limited mass army of its past and the expensive but proficient Western professional military model.
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### Author:  [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3707 "2022-03-30T16:35:10Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Why? What’s the point of lying? Who do they think they’re fooling? Lying accomplishs nothing except ruining their diplomatic reputation.
No, it enhances it, since their reputation is that they lie all the time.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3708 "2022-03-30T16:40:37Z")
Weird World:
> **[When Vladimir Putin watched ‘Dr. Strangelove’ with Oliver Stone](https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/vladimir-putin-watched-dr-strangelove-oliver-stone/)**
>
> Bizarre.
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### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3710 "2022-03-30T17:01:24Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Why? What’s the point of lying? **Who do they think they’re fooling?**
Their useful idiots who spout Russian talking points at every opportunity. Surely you’ve seen them? “If Russia’s the bad guy, why are they offering a cease fire?!!?”
It’s the same sort of person who ignored Trump’s racist acts because he once said, “I condemn white supremacy”, as if that actually meant anything. Some people just like having any excuse, no matter how threadbare, to support people like that.
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3711 "2022-03-30T17:05:24Z")
Good article. Thanks!
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3716 "2022-03-30T17:34:03Z")
A post was merged into an existing topic: [Subscribing to The Guardian and other Free news sites](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/subscribing-to-the-guardian-and-other-free-news-sites/961997/7)
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3719 "2022-03-30T18:13:23Z")
> [@SunUp](#):
>
> Assuming that Russia will pull their northern troops out of the line to make the trip to the Donetsk/Luhansk region, they will probably be able to make most of the movement by rail through Russian territory. Russia has a pretty good rail network, and most of their units moved to the front by rail, so they have recent experience doing so. It will save some wear and tear on their tracked and wheeled vehicles as well.
A train is just a column of assets that can’t scatter if attacked. blow up the rails and the engines pulling the tanks and let nature take it’s course. Imagine tanks and flat bed rail cars all twisted up in a pile. It would be a carnival shooting gallery of already mangled ducks.
[Obligatory train attack from Red Tails movie.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgrhbdeXW_E)
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### Author:  [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3720 "2022-03-30T18:18:24Z")
there are 2 videos that they are showing of the destroyed city are a bit surreal. one has a gaggle of geese wandering about the ruins. the second has a cow wandering down a bombed out street. so very surreal.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3721 "2022-03-30T18:22:07Z")
Given that many places in Ukraine are lacking food it would not surprise me if either geese or cow or both wind up on someone’s menu in short order.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3722 "2022-03-30T18:22:39Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Why? What’s the point of lying? Who do they think they’re fooling? Lying accomplishs nothing except ruining their diplomatic reputation.
It’s not lying. It’s bullshit.
To combine your question with the mention of Oliver Stone, Stone was involved in a bullshit documentary a few years ago called “Ukraine On Fire.” The film is 100% polyunsaturated Kremlin propaganda; Stone is a useful idiot. It’s not even good propaganda; it’s just so comically obviously propaganda it’s difficult to believe. It is to propaganda what those Nigerian prince email scams are to the field of con artistry.
But - well, like Nigerian prince email scams - it really does fool people. It’s bullshit because the person saying it clearly isn’t even trying all that hard to lie, but they know some people will swallow it anyway. Many, many, many people think “Ukraine On Fire” is totally true. They’re like the Thermians who just accepted “Galaxy Quest” was true. This sort of transparent bullshit might not fool you, and it might not fool a lot of people, but it fools an oblivious demographic of useful idiots.
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3723 "2022-03-30T18:23:35Z")
> **[F-15 Eagle Driver On What It Is Like Flying Against Ukraine's Fighter Pilots](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44965/u-s-f-15-pilot-on-what-it-is-like-fighting-against-ukraines-fighter-pilots)**
>
> An F-15 pilot's firsthand account of how Ukrainian fighter crews' performance in training made it no surprise they have kept Russia at bay.
> “I don’t know how the National Guard Bureau decided on the pairings, but we were lucky in the California Air National Guard to have a state partner that was strategically important, and that was Ukraine,” explains Jersey.
> Jersey was the California ANG’s lead planner for the 2018 exercise, and it gave him a clear insight into the Ukrainian Air Force’s abilities.
> “We did plenty of BFM [dogfighting] with our F-15Cs against their MiG-29s and Su-27s and to be honest we could tell instantly that their pilots were very good. … When I flew with them I thought their airmanship and the way they moved their aircraft – especially close-in dogfighting – was incredible. They knew their aircraft as well as anyone else knows their aircraft. I have fought Fulcrums and Flankers from other countries and they were up there with the best of the people that fly those airframes – hands down.
> “When we started working with Ukraine we were the tactical experts. … these guys are the undoubted experts now.”
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3724 "2022-03-30T19:13:34Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> Well, Russia had Crimea since 1783. Ukraine had it from 1991-2014. Probably the majority of the population is still pro-Russian, even now. Russia has also made major infrastructure investments in Crimea since 2014. So it’s a very different situation from Donbas.
>
> I don’t think there’s any real benefit to Ukraine in trying to get back Crimea. Ukraine is saying in current peace talks that they are willing to leave it under Russian control and look at the situation again in 15 years.
Good points.
> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> They never thought there would be any serious serious fighting at all. They thought they could just march in and take over with minimal resistance, and that most Ukrainians would simply accept it.
That worked in Crimea.
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#):
>
> Of course the Russo-Finnish War of 1940 would be the prime example, and the Boer War in S. Africa did not start well for the British at all.
The Zulu war also was off to a VERY bad start.
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### Author:  [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3725 "2022-03-30T23:30:27Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#):
>
> Pulling back across the border to resupply is not going to fundamentally change things.
> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> There are [reports](https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1508886176043839492?s=20&t=XFueUSQnXzIFBRdXLaSwiQ) that a major munitions dump – over the border inside Russia – was hit by a Ukrainian missile
Pulling back across the border to resupply may not be easy, if the reporting of the missile attack into Russia is accurate. Russian troops pulling out of Ukraine will just free up Ukranian missiles to hit massed military targets in Russia. Prior to invasion, the massed Russian forces couldn’t be attacked, but Ukraine has every reason to hit them now (unless there are more strategic targets, obviously).
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2022, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3726 "2022-03-30T23:47:59Z")
> [@echoreply](#):
>
> (unless there are more strategic targets, obviously).
And they’ll know what targets are the most strategic, because the Ukranians are getting a lot of “eye in the sky” real time data and advice from the USA.
It was not a coincidence that the ship in Berdynask was toasted.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2022, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3727 "2022-03-31T03:08:00Z")
7 busses with Russian soldiers suffering from Acute Radiation Syndrome have arrived to a hospital in Belarus from the Chernobyl Exclusion Zone in Ukraine.
They allegedly dug trenches in the highly radioactive Red Forest - UNIAN News Agency
[https://t.co/3ZcqoF6c9I](https://t.co/3ZcqoF6c9I)
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### Author:  [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2022, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3728 "2022-03-31T03:39:48Z")
It’s easy to feel sorry for the poor cannon fodder until you remember about children being shot in the face and women being raped.
I hope the medical personnel don’t also end up suffering from radiation sickness because nobody thought to at least spray the sick cannon fodder down with water.
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### Author:  [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2022, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3729 "2022-03-31T04:27:39Z")
Here’s something that may indirectly help Ukraine.
> **[Tech sanctions have hit Russia harder than expected, Biden official says](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/03/30/u-s-boasts-99-percent-drop-in-controlled-technology-exports-to-russia-00021785)**
>
> The Commerce Department reports that U.S. exports of blacklisted technology have fallen 99 percent compared to the same time period last year.
> **Feeling the squeeze:** “The Ukrainian government reports that Russia’s two major tank plants have halted work due to lack of foreign components,” Kendler said. “Even Russian car maker Lada has shut down production as U.S. and partner countries’ export controls have deprived the company of necessary parts and supplies.”
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