# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 188
### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2022, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3750 "2022-03-31T19:46:03Z")
> [@Sauron](#):
>
> In other words, the guys digging trenches probably didn’t think it was all that dangerous to do.
Of course not, or they wouldn’t have dug. But their ignorance wasn’t due to deliberate Russian misinformation about the danger. Russian media wasn’t disputing that part of the HBO show.
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2022, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3751 "2022-03-31T19:49:57Z")
> [@DesertDog](#):
>
> > [@chappachula](#):
> >
> > Wiki says that the mud lasts for 4 to 6 weeks every spring, which means that in another week or two it may be possible for all those Russian tanks to leave the asphalt and move in any direction they want.
>
> Without fuel they aren’t going anywhere, mud or no mud, and I’ve seen no evidence the Russian army’s gotten their logistical ducks in a row.
Pretty ironic if by the time mud season is finally over, Russian armor is completely out of fuel, ammo and spare parts.
[ ](https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.VxNa4ku_3JPkdOOkpcfu1wHaFQ?w=250&h=180&c=7&r=0&o=5&dpr=1.25&pid=1.7)
[ ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-289-1091-26%2C_Russland%2C_Pferdegespann_im_Schlamm.jpg?20140210194354)
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3752 "2022-03-31T19:57:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> > [@aceplace57](#):
> >
> > Ukraine has no choice. They have to give up some territory for peace. It’s a terrible reality.
>
> No, they don’t. There are other compromises. Agree to not join NATO. Accept that Russia owns Crimea.
That assumes that Russia really believes that Ukraine joining NATO is an existential threat. More likely, Russia views Ukraine joining NATO as Ukraine passing irretrievably beyond the Russian sphere of influence. Although given Russian paranoia and the habitual thinking of authoritarian regimes, that might be _considered_ an existential threat.
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3753 "2022-03-31T20:03:40Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> That assumes that Russia really believes that Ukraine joining NATO is an existential threat. More likely, Russia views Ukraine joining NATO as Ukraine passing irretrievably beyond the Russian sphere of influence.
I lean towards the opinion that both are important. That the prevailing Russian leadership zeitgeist honestly is that of a paranoid fear of being encircled AND they resent any opposition to them being a regional hegemon.
It makes for a twitchy, violent neighbor. Like a super-territorial, shy-sharp (i.e. fear biter) dog.
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2022, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3754 "2022-03-31T20:04:07Z")
It really does need to pointed out more that Russia joined NATO’s Partnership for Peace program in 1994 and was on the record as an aspiring NATO member until 2014.
Ukraine joined at the same time.
You can’t really complain that NATO is out to get you when you’re in line to join up.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3755 "2022-03-31T21:21:49Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> That assumes that Russia really believes that Ukraine joining NATO is an existential threat.
Well, Putin likely does not think so, but it would be a “win” for him, allowing him to save face.
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2022, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3756 "2022-03-31T21:46:08Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#):
>
> I wonder if Putin knows about any of that stuff, or if his advisors are too afraid to tell him.
he has unlimited internet access … he has everything needed (and then some) to know as much as we do.
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2022, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3757 "2022-03-31T22:22:39Z")
One-of-a-kind prototype Russian tank destroyed in Ukraine:
> **[Russia’s Only Prototype T-80UM2 Tank Was Destroyed In Ukraine](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44855/russias-only-prototype-t-80um2-tank-was-destroyed-in-ukraine)**
>
> The T-80UM2 never led to quantity production and its presence in Ukraine remains mysterious.
Plus, apparently the Russian army is using civilian vehicles and even dump trucks as personnel carriers.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2022, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3758 "2022-03-31T22:22:57Z")
Interesting photo essay of Ukraine’s train system. The employees are showing a lot of pride, still dressed in uniforms, and serving the people. It’s quite remarkable they continually make track repairs and keep the trains running. [The people who keep the refugee trains running out of Ukraine – photo essay | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/31/the-people-who-keep-the-refugee-trains-running-out-of-ukraine-photo-essay)
> [@](#):
>
> On the Guardian today we have a photo essay by Jelle Krings and accompanying story from [Shaun Walker](https://www.theguardian.com/profile/shaun-walker) in Kyiv about the railway system in Ukraine.
>
> Millions of people have evacuated the country by train, as Ukranian Railways and its 230,000 employees stay in t he country to work and help get refugees to safety. From Aleksandr Kamyshin, Ukranian Railways CEO.
>
> > If the track is blown up, we repair it. If we can get somewhere, we go. It may be dangerous for our staff, but then that train can save thousands of other people from danger.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3759 "2022-04-01T02:08:08Z")
> [@Lumpy](#):
>
> One-of-a-kind prototype Russian tank destroyed in Ukraine:
‘The tank may well have been useful for test purposes…’
It failed the test.
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2022, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3760 "2022-04-01T02:26:09Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> It failed the test.
I will go out on a limb here and say that the tank crew were somewhat disappointed with its performance. At least, momentarily.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2022, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3761 "2022-04-01T03:35:37Z")
Guardian published some battlefield photos. Gas masks? I haven’t heard any reports of attacks with chemical weapons.
[ ](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/866192eac74a4cf7225b276dd24a238a96ec93de/0_0_5760_3840/master/5760.jpg?width=465&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=a333223f5f6cc35a42adc18c2221c5fc)
Geez. 😳
[ ](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/f7be2bfc677c96703ebed7e54756d74fa9c7177a/0_0_5464_3640/master/5464.jpg?width=465&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=e19c8ee758d1697749ac0ba746783fe4)
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2022, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3762 "2022-04-01T05:19:55Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> ‘The tank may well have been useful for test purposes…’
>
> It failed the test.
Depends whose test. It passed the missile test used against it.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2022, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3763 "2022-04-01T05:22:41Z")
Ukraine has attacked the fuel depot in Belgorod in Russia again, this time with helicopters.
>
>
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2022, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3764 "2022-04-01T05:54:39Z")
If they stage a strong comeback, Ukraine should try to hit strategic targets in Voronezh, Rostov and Krasnodar districts to weaken Russia’s position in Donbas and reassert their claim to Crimea, but strikes into Russia need to be done judiciously to avoid getting the Russians too much more firmly behind Vladdy.
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### Author:  [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2022, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3765 "2022-04-01T09:07:44Z")
Deepening the battlefield is important.
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2022, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3766 "2022-04-01T09:20:25Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> ‘The tank may well have been useful for test purposes…’
>
> It failed the test.
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Depends whose test. It passed the missile test used against it.
Major book spoiler for Hugh Laurie’s _The Gun Seller_:
In the book, the main character gets roped into investigating (and then being a part of) a manufactured terrorist conspiracy created to allow an arms manufacturer to test a new type of attack helicopter on the “terrorist cell” in front of the media, to drum up sales.
The protagonist, having figured this out, smuggles a Javelin missile onto the scene and shoots down the helicopter. As a result, the sale of Javelins go way up.
Reality appears to be mirroring fiction here…
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2022, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3767 "2022-04-01T12:03:22Z")
> **[Russia drafts 134,500 conscripts but says they won't go to Ukraine](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-drafts-134500-conscripts-says-they-wont-go-ukraine-2022-03-31/)**
>
> President Vladimir Putin on Thursday signed a decree ordering 134,500 new conscripts into the army as part of Russia's annual spring draft, but the defence ministry said the call-up had nothing to do with the war in Ukraine.
April Fools!
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2022, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3768 "2022-04-01T12:17:40Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> I know it’s been said before, but when do we get to see Putin repeat the meme from the movie “Downfall”?
The inevitable [parody video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4UM2IkfB0o) (possibly one of several; I didn’t attempt an exhaustive search).
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2022, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3769 "2022-04-01T12:24:32Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#):
>
> Deepening the battlefield is important.
Reducing oil supplies to Russia’s troops is crucial for Ukraine’s survival. There’s strong evidence Russia is regrouping and organizing for new offensives.
Imho Small, carefully planned strikes in Russian border regions should be expected. Especially when compared to the outrageous scorched earth policy Russia uses in Ukraine.
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