# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 194
### Author:  [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3870 "2022-04-02T12:19:06Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Ukraine is going to need trained bomb disposal technicians and equipment.
>
> It’s going to take a lot of skilled and dangerous work to clear the cities of mines and trip wires. Otherwise people trying to clear rubble and begin repairs will needlessly die. Farmers have to plow fields and plant wheat.
>
> I’m not sure how it can be done. Perhaps contractors like the US used in Iraq? Pay them through a international fund. They would only work in areas free of fighting.
>
> I saw a documentary on British efforts to clear the Falklands of mines. It’s taken 38 years. A group of about 100 Zimbabwean contractors were hired. A machine plowed the beaches and unearthed mines. It was armoured and small anti-personnel mines wouldn’t damage the machine. The mines were defused or destroyed. [Falklands cleared of nearly all landmines, 38 years on from war | Falkland Islands | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/10/falklands-cleared-landmines-uk-argentina-war)
>
> The Guardian blog
> [@JKellyMap](#):
>
> Wow. If true, is this a war crime? Should be.
I would say that it is. The silver lining is that this indicates the Russians aren’t planning to go back to those areas after they “regroup.”
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### Author:  [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3871 "2022-04-02T12:21:03Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#):
>
> The silver lining is that this indicates the Russians aren’t planning to go back to those areas after they “regroup.”
Surely they have accurately mapped and documented each mine and booby trap for removal post-re-de-Natzification?
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3872 "2022-04-02T12:40:10Z")
😳😳😱😱
What’s the problem? I’ll just kick this pesky disc to the curb. I can only guess they hadn’t been armed?
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJ-W6GsjOhc)
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### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3873 "2022-04-02T13:29:45Z")
> **[Foreign volunteers help fight Russia in Irpin](https://kyivindependent.com/national/foreign-volunteers-help-fight-russia-in-irpin)**
>
> Irpin, Kyiv Oblast -- The urban ruins of the Battle of Kyiv contain many secrets. Irpin, a town just northwest of Ukraine’s capital, a battlefield of ruined homes, charred streets and broken glass, now seems forsaken in a lull. But beneath...
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### Author:  [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3874 "2022-04-02T14:00:34Z")
Not a mine expert, but those are reportedly anti-tank mines with pressure fuses on top. You’d have to jump up and down on top to set one off. Or drive a tank over it, which is what it’s for. A less hasty minefield would presumably include some anti-personnel mines that would prevent easy removal like this.
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3875 "2022-04-02T14:58:21Z")
And taking time to arm the motion sensors on the AT mines, if they’re the modern kind that has those. Which with the Russians, who knows if they even _themselves_ know if they have those.
Or else this is the Ukrainians trolling the Russians yet again.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3876 "2022-04-02T14:59:51Z")
I’m guessing _Proekt_ is Russian for Weekly World News?
> Russian investigative news outlet [Proekt](https://www.proekt.media/en/investigation-en/putin-health/) revealed that a team of doctors frequently visited the 69-year-old Russian president at his residences or accompanied him on trips amid growing questions about his health… Putin has also taken up bathing in blood extract from severed deer antlers as a form of alternative medicine, the report said.
> **[Putin was visited by a cancer surgeon dozens of times in 4 years and takes...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-visited-cancer-surgeon-dozens-112724988.html)**
>
> A surgeon who specializes in thyroid cancer flew to visit Putin 35 times and spent a total of 166 days in his presence, a report reveals.
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### Author:  [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3877 "2022-04-02T15:02:48Z")
Actually I suppose it’s even possible that it’s a Ukrainian-laid minefield to begin with and they’re completely aware of the (lack of) danger in kicking them around like that.
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3878 "2022-04-02T15:03:45Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> Unless Putin is so far gone he can’t watch tv, he must have a pretty good idea what’s going on.
If all he has is access to his state-controlled media, no he hasn’t. If, more likely, he also has access to western media he’s believing it’s all lies those western governments are dictating they disseminate. After all, it’s what Russian media does.
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### Author:  [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3879 "2022-04-02T15:13:27Z")
> [@DesertDog](#):
>
> If, more likely, he also has access to western media he’s believing it’s all lies those western governments are dictating they disseminate. After all, it’s what Russian media does.
Yep, like the old trope (well, like real-life experience for me, too) about the cheating partner being paranoid about their partner cheating because, well, if they’re doing it, then the partner must be doing it, too. After all, everybody does it!
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3880 "2022-04-02T16:44:32Z")
In addition to everything else, Ukraine’s roads will be chewed up from having heavy tracked vehicles run on them.
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> If he doesn’t win he leaves office in a box.
**Boris Badenov:**"But I wouldn’t be able to breathe in there.
**Fearless Leader** “Believe me, that would be the least of your problems.”
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3881 "2022-04-02T17:47:02Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> At least get your facts straight, rather than making wild guesses. Read the posted articles. Don’t expect me to do that for you.
And which facts are those? There are no facts in your story, just a story. No medical tests, no medical results. Show them to me and I’ll believe them. It seems to me you rely on one source too much and take them at their word for everything.
Try this as a [counterexample](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60904676):
> Shortly after the allegations emerged, an unnamed US official was quoted by Reuters as saying that intelligence suggested the men’s symptoms were due to “environmental” factors, not poisoning.
>
> And later an official in the Ukrainian president’s office, Ihor Zhovkva, told the BBC that while he hadn’t spoken to Mr Abramovich, members of the Ukrainian delegation were “fine” and one had said the story was “false”.
Two sides to the same story, yet your story makes claims that they have no evidence for. Was there not a single person in Kyiv that could take blood samples? It doesn’t require some kind of super top secret machinery to find out if someone was exposed to a chemical weapon. And if these people were indeed suspected of having been poisoned by Russians, why did they go back to talk some more? Why does the Ukraine government deny it happened?
Look at my first point after you posted this story. I specifically said that if they had evidence of this, it would be a whole new ballgame. Imagine the repercussions if there was proof Russia had poisoned a peace talk delegation. This would have dominated the news for days and resulted in a whole new level of support for Ukraine, military and political. Yet, the story just faded away. I guess the whole world, Ukraine included, thinks a little poisoning here or there is no big deal.
> [@Gorsnak](#):
>
> Actually I suppose it’s even possible that it’s a Ukrainian-laid minefield to begin with and they’re completely aware of the (lack of) danger in kicking them around like that.
Whichever it is, it’s stupid. It’s not like explosives have never gone off when they weren’t supposed to. And kicking them to the side rather than removing them is doubly stupid.
> [@DesertDog](#):
>
> If, more likely, he also has access to western media he’s believing it’s all lies those western governments are dictating they disseminate. After all, it’s what Russian media does.
He doesn’t need western media, there is all kinds of news and videos by regular people all over the internet. With that and the fact that he doesn’t control Ukraine after a month, he has to know what is happening. Unless he actually is nuts, he knows what’s going on. I’m not sure what would be worse, to tell you the truth. Crazy or prideful, either will turn out bad for Ukraine and maybe a good chunk of Europe too.
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3882 "2022-04-02T18:20:04Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> there is all kinds of news and videos by regular people all over the internet
Stooges, the lot of them.
Seriously, you know of the beliefs the rank and file CTers have from living in their bubble and you question the delusional limits of one man?
He’s just created his own bubble, is all.
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3883 "2022-04-02T18:42:55Z")
> [@DesertDog](#):
>
> He’s just created his own bubble, is all.
That’s why I said If he’s actually a nutjob. If he’s got all his faculties, he knows what’s going on. Problem being, no one outside of his tiny inner circle can tell which is which.
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3884 "2022-04-02T18:45:16Z")
“The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3885 "2022-04-02T18:58:28Z")
Right on point.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3886 "2022-04-02T19:20:48Z")
Evidence of atrocities is being revealed in the liberated cities. Mass graves of civilians and a lot of children. It sounds much worse than previously expected. [Ukrainian children used as ‘human shields’ near Kyiv, say witness reports | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/02/ukrainian-children-used-as-human-shields-near-kyiv-say-witness-reports)
> [@](#):
>
> Ukraine’s attorney general is gathering a dossier of claims about the Russian use of local children to avoid fire when in retreat from around Ukraine’s capital and elsewhere.
> Coaches of children were said to have been placed in front of tanks in the village of Novyi Bykiv, close to the encircled city of Chernihiv, 100 miles north of Kyiv.
>
> It was further alleged that children had been taken as hostages in a number of conflict hot spots around the country to ensure locals would not give the coordinates of the enemy’s movements to the Ukrainian forces.
>
> “Cases of using children as cover are recorded in Sumy, Kyiv, Chernihiv, Zaporizhzhia _oblasts_ [regions],” said Lyudmila Denisova, Ukraine’s human rights ombudsman.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3887 "2022-04-02T19:21:03Z")
>
Many unburied dead civilians found in liberated Bucha, including at least a couple with hands tied behind their backs.
>
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3888 "2022-04-02T19:31:12Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Ukraine is going to need trained bomb disposal technicians and equipment.
>
> It’s going to take a lot of skilled and dangerous work to clear the cities of mines and trip wires. Otherwise people trying to clear rubble and begin repairs will needlessly die. Farmers have to plow fields and plant wheat.
>
> I’m not sure how it can be done.
That’s a long-standing question - how to clean up war zones.
France and Belgium are still reaping an annual [iron harvest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_harvest) from WWI, and that was over 100 years ago.
---
### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3889 "2022-04-02T19:34:47Z")
Ah, “Ukrainian curling”…
Anti-tank mines are sometimes built so they require a significant amount of weight to detonate. Far more than what a person weighs. So… relatively safe, for an active war zone. Also, notice they only contact the sides of the mines, not the tops.
> [@JRDelirious](#):
>
> And taking time to arm the motion sensors on the AT mines, if they’re the modern kind that has those. Which with the Russians, who knows if they even _themselves_ know if they have those.
>
> Or else this is the Ukrainians trolling the Russians yet again.
Or all of the above.
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> Whichever it is, it’s stupid. It’s not like explosives have never gone off when they weren’t supposed to. And kicking them to the side rather than removing them is doubly stupid.
People in a war zone of that sort often have a different approach to risk than those of us living peacefully do. After being surrounded by death, destruction, and danger for a month a person’s thinking can be altered and they’ll start doing things we’d consider crazy-risky.
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