# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 195
### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3890 "2022-04-02T20:11:56Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> People in a war zone of that sort often have a different approach to risk than those of us living peacefully do. After being surrounded by death, destruction, and danger for a month a person’s thinking can be altered and they’ll start doing things we’d consider crazy-risky.
I can tell you I spent two and a half years in war zones and I have never seen any explosive device treated like that. Ground troops have a pretty healthy aversion to land mines and IEDs, and with good reason. Yes, you can do something risky, but it usually has a reason or point to it, like charging into an ambush. Kicking around mines is just stupid. They already know Russian equipment is shitty, why would they think the mines are any better made?
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### Author:  [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3891 "2022-04-02T21:01:00Z")
There are [reports](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60967463) that the russians have been murdering\* civilians before retreating.
\*Some people on twitter are saying “executed”, but that implies it was some sort of judicial act, it’s not, it is mass murder plain and simple.
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### Author:  [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3892 "2022-04-02T21:26:01Z")
Perhaps the soldiers that that scooted the mines to the side of the road new a little about them.
Never set a mine or been in the service, don’t know much about them. Except they do look like pressure sensors from the top. Might be one on the bottom too if you are going to dig/pick it up.
Moving to the side seems reasonable, but would take incredibly big brass balls. The Ukrainians seem to be in no short supply of those.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3893 "2022-04-02T21:30:51Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> I can tell you I spent two and a half years in war zones and I have never seen any explosive device treated like that.
Just reporting what my uncles said about serving in WWII. Apparently it can have that effect, although it’s not universal.
And yes, some of the reckless guys they served with were killed by their own recklessness and not the enemy.
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### Author:  [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3894 "2022-04-02T21:33:31Z")
> [@enipla](#):
>
> Moving to the side seems reasonable, but would take incredibly big brass balls. The Ukrainians seem to be in no short supply of those.
They definitely have no shortage there. This is from a month ago:
> **[Ukrainian man removes mine from roadway while smoking cigarette: video](https://nypost.com/2022/02/28/ukrainian-man-removes-mine-from-bridge-while-smoking-cigarette/)**
>
> A fearless Ukrainian man removed a land mine from a bridge with his bare hands while casually puffing on a cigarette, startling video shows.
Amazing how he’s just casually “yeah, gotta take out the trash here”. No noticeable fear, just dealing with a chore.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3895 "2022-04-02T21:37:22Z")
> [@Mogle](#):
>
> There are [reports](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60967463) that the russians have been murdering\* civilians before retreating.
Massive civilian casualties; children killed, even when sheltering in supposedly safe places; hospitals bombed, mines and tripwires laid; the entirety of beautiful cities destroyed. I don’t know of any examples of this degree and scale of pure evil since World War II. No wonder Biden plainly called Putin a “thug”, a “war criminal”, and someone who cannot remain in power. The culture of the Russian military is partly to blame, too. They were ruthless in World War II, as well, even though they were on our side against Hitler.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3896 "2022-04-02T21:48:10Z")
Four or five dead naked women found by the side of the road, partially burnt, presumably an attempt to hide the evidence.
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3897 "2022-04-02T22:10:49Z")
> [@Mogle](#):
>
> There are [reports](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60967463) that the russians have been murdering\* civilians before retreating.
I’m afraid we will be hearing about this everywhere Russia is retreating from. Gotta get that payback you know, and civilians are handy.
> [@enipla](#):
>
> Never set a mine or been in the service, don’t know much about them. Except they do look like pressure sensors from the top. Might be one on the bottom too if you are going to dig/pick it up.
Yes, you are right on. Pressure sensors on the top. Anti tank mines require 300 kilos (could be pounds, it’s been awhile) of weight to trigger them. Many also have triggers if you lift them. I can’t tell because of the quality of the video, but these mines could have been abandoned without being armed. Someone familiar with them may be able to tell the difference, but I still wouldn’t trust it. Ukraine has already put alerts out about booby traps and tripwires and it is unbelievably easy booby trap a mine, everything is already in place. All they really accomplished here is to make two giant piles of unexploded mines.
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> And yes, some of the reckless guys they served with were killed by their own recklessness and not the enemy.
Yeah, I’ve heard stories. Never had to witness it myself, thank god.
> [@Seanette](#):
>
> Amazing how he’s just casually “yeah, gotta take out the trash here”. No noticeable fear, just dealing with a chore.
Thankfully, it’s wet there or his cigarette ash may have started a forest fire. 😀
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> Four or five dead naked women found by the side of the road, partially burnt, presumably an attempt to hide the evidence.
Or just for the hell of it. There’s no punishment coming from Russia and Ukraine probably doesn’t have a lot of time for investigations. Hopefully they can ID the dead women so their names can be read aloud in future war crime trials to drive home the seriousness of the crimes committed in Ukraine.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3898 "2022-04-02T22:53:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#):
>
> Massive civilian casualties; children killed, even when sheltering in supposedly safe places; hospitals bombed, mines and tripwires laid; the entirety of beautiful cities destroyed. I don’t know of any examples of this degree and scale of pure evil since World War II.
Grozny and Aleppo. They just didn’t get the press Ukraine has gotten.
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> Four or five dead naked women found by the side of the road, partially burnt, presumably an attempt to hide the evidence.
It’s not like the Russians have been hiding any other evidence, don’t know why they’d suddenly feel the need there.
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> All they really accomplished here is to make two giant piles of unexploded mines.
That, and a more passable road with no mines left on the pavement where you drive. So… guess that’s a plus?
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 2, 2022, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3899 "2022-04-02T23:45:09Z")
Saw these tweet. Louise is a Middle East correspondent for The Sunday Times.
@louiseelisabet
([https://mobile.twitter.com/louiseelisabet](https://mobile.twitter.com/louiseelisabet))
De-mining experts going into Irpin told us it would take months, if not years, to clear all the regions the Russians had held around Kyiv. These areas might have been liberated, but not one soldier or civilian we met was celebrating. There was just sorrow, and anger.
[
@louiseelisabet
](https://mobile.twitter.com/louiseelisabet)
Russian forces retreated from this area in the last few days. They left absolute horror behind. Soldiers told us they’d found mutilated bodies of men, women and teenagers inside a basement of a holiday home. Others that corpses left in the street had been mined.
[
@louiseelisabet
](https://mobile.twitter.com/louiseelisabet)
Reporting from
[@AFP](https://mobile.twitter.com/AFP)
and
[@Reuters](https://mobile.twitter.com/Reuters)
inside Bucha shows bodies lying on the streets or in half-dug graves, some with their hands tied behind their backs. Mass graves. Executions. Soldiers and civilians we spoke to say they will never forgive this.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3900 "2022-04-03T01:00:14Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Soldiers and civilians we spoke to say they will never forgive this.
Putin has created a situation where Russia (and Russians) will be remembered for these atrocities for several generations.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3901 "2022-04-03T01:32:15Z")
Yes, for someone who doesn’t believe that Ukrainians have a separate nationality from Russians, he’s done his best to make it so.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3902 "2022-04-03T02:35:20Z")
Just putting it out there in case there are any Russian soldiers or fighter pilots reading:
>
[ ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPRQTSIWUAIMwNA?format=jpg&name=medium)
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### Author:  [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3903 "2022-04-03T02:47:50Z")
Reports that Russian troops killed every male between 16 and 60 in the town of Bucha before withdrawing.
>
>
> WorldOnAlert @worldonalert
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3904 "2022-04-03T03:22:39Z")
>
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### Author:  [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3905 "2022-04-03T03:32:21Z")
There was a time when I thought that most of the Russian army were innocents thrown into a bad situation. I’m more on the “kill them all and let god sort them out” side now.
This sort of thing doesn’t just happen because people are frightened of their leaders, it happens because they _like_ doing it. I hope their happy memories keep them from missing all of the cool stuff they had just months ago (Smart phones, plane rides, Big Macs, money, etc.)
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3906 "2022-04-03T03:55:18Z")
> [@JaneDoe42](#):
>
> There was a time when I thought that most of the Russian army were innocents thrown into a bad situation.
Yeah. If even half of this is true it throws a lot of doubt on ‘they didn’t know they’d be firing on civilians and they don’t like it’, doesn’t it?
I really, really hope that at least half of it’s not true. But I’m all too afraid that it is.
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> for someone who doesn’t believe that Ukrainians have a separate nationality from Russians, he’s done his best to make it so.
That’s for sure.
Rather like a very bitter form of the old joke:
\ ‘Lord, we’ve wreaked great havoc on the enemies to the north!’
\ ‘What enemies to the north? We don’t have enemies to the north!’
\ ‘Well, we do now!’
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3907 "2022-04-03T03:57:17Z")
Some of the Ukrainian successes are just basic common sense. When the Russian convoys got caught in a long line they simply took out the front and back of the convoy trapping them in between where they can be picked off.
[from BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60970818)
The road is narrow and straight, an ideal place for an ambush. Witnesses said the Ukrainians attacked the convoy with Bayraktar attack drones bought from Turkey. Other neighbours said Ukrainian territorial defence volunteers were also in the area.
However they did it, the lead vehicles and the ones bringing up the rear were knocked out and imprisoned the others. The wreckage has not been touched. Belts of 30mm cannon shells lie on the grass verge, along with many pieces of dangerous and damaged abandoned ordinance.
Young conscripts ran away, begging, local people said, not to be turned over to Ukrainian territorial defence
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3908 "2022-04-03T09:05:35Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#):
>
> Reports that Russian troops killed every male between 16 and 60 in the town of Bucha before withdrawing.
Of course they did. Because that’s the conscription age range for Ukraine and therefore every single one of them was a enemy (Ukrainian) soldier whether they actually were or not. And, apparently, the Russians are usually a “take no prisoners” strategy, or rather, “leave no prisoner alive” judging by the people killed with their hands tied behind their backs. Probably justify it by saying they committed “treason” by not immediately submitting to Putin on the first day of the invasion although I’m not sure that would have saved them, either.
> [@JaneDoe42](#):
>
> There was a time when I thought that most of the Russian army were innocents thrown into a bad situation. I’m more on the “kill them all and let god sort them out” side now.
>
> This sort of thing doesn’t just happen because people are frightened of their leaders, it happens because they _like_ doing it. I hope their happy memories keep them from missing all of the cool stuff they had just months ago (Smart phones, plane rides, Big Macs, money, etc.)
Men might go into the Russian army as innocents but the way they run that army you either become a hardened sadist or you become a victim of them. The lower levels of the army are treated in a brutal fashion even in peace time, is it any wonder they become brutal thugs?
Draft evasion is rampant in Russia (or at least it was - I’m not sure of how this war might have changed the situation) as is running away and/or getting out as soon as possible.
---
### Author:  [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3909 "2022-04-03T11:07:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> Men might go into the Russian army as innocents but the way they run that army you either become a hardened sadist or you become a victim of them. The lower levels of the army are treated in a brutal fashion even in peace time, is it any wonder they become brutal thugs?
It’s like that in old books:
> A large force was led by the exiled Georgian Prince Alexander, who could count on hordes of Daghestan tribesmen whenever Russia was attacked. But even this formidable army was defeated, at Aslandouz, when ten thousand of them fell before the Russians, whose losses were slight. Thus encouraged, the Russians now crossed the dread, serpent-ridden steppes of the Moughan and besieged Lenkoran, a Persian fortress designed by English military engineers. It fell after a desperate resistance which lasted five days, and enraged the Russians. In the words of a Russian general-in-command, ‘The extreme exasperation of my soldiers at the obstinacy of the defence caused them to bayonet every one of the four thousand Persian garrison. Not one man or officer escaped death.’
and you may as well add Japanese atrocities in WW2, but look also at American massacres in Vietnam, Israeli crimes in Palestine, etc. for proof that brutal thugs tend to pop up everywhere anyway. I mean, I do not think that Russians are somehow genetically predisposed to be evil.
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