# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 197
### Author:  [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3930 "2022-04-03T16:44:04Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#):
>
> So many poor broken people are going to come out of this.
40-some million PTSD victims, sadly - utterly tragic.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3931 "2022-04-03T16:45:22Z")
Imho Offering poisoned food and alcohol to Russian troops is a serious mistake. That’s just asking for reprisals.
> **[Russian Troops Dead After Getting ‘Treated’ to Poisoned Meals, Ukraine...](https://news.yahoo.com/russian-troops-dead-getting-treated-201328360.html)**
>
> According to Ukraine’s Intelligence Directorate, two soldiers have died and dozens more have been hospitalized after being offered buns by locals near the city of Kharkhiv.
> [@](#):
>
> According to the Intelligence Directorate, several hundred Russian soldiers have also suffered severe illnesses from drinking poisoned alcohol while occupying the region. Ukrainian officials said that the Russian military is “writing off these cases as so-called ‘non-combat losses.’”
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3932 "2022-04-03T16:47:32Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#):
>
> I think the most likely scenario is a new Cold War
A new cold war in which Russia doesn’t have the resources of the USSR. There’s apparently been a tremendous brain drain of young people fleeing Russia to avoid the war and conscription, and Russia won’t have the industrial resources of its Warsaw pact satellites to help it. Putin has spent 20 years turning Russia into a corrupt pariah petro-power, not an industrial heavy-weight.
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3933 "2022-04-03T17:04:45Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#):
>
> Germany was allowed to blame most of its collective sins on one man. With Putin out of the picture Russia may be allowed to do the same. If Russians do the deed themselves it will allow the rest of the world to at least pretend all is forgiven
All my fingers crossed that this will happen. I don’t see any other way out of this that isn’t massively more of a disaster than there already is.
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#):
>
> So many poor broken people are going to come out of this.
That’s for sure.
And it’s extremely unfortunate that so many humans break in a way that causes them to then break others.
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> There’s apparently been a tremendous brain drain of young people fleeing Russia to avoid the war and conscription, and Russia won’t have the industrial resources of its Warsaw pact satellites to help it. Putin has spent 20 years turning Russia into a corrupt pariah petro-power
And some of those Russians who flee, even those who do so to protest the war, are also bearing the burden of Russia having been turned into a pariah.
Washington Post, but should be a gift link, so anyone should be able to read it:
> **[In Tbilisi, Georgia, even Russian activists get a less friendly welcome](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/03/ukraine-russia-georgia/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWJpZCI6IjM2NDA2NDk3IiwicmVhc29uIjoiZ2lmdCIsIm5iZiI6MTY0OTAwNTM5MSwiaXNzIjoic3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ucyIsImV4cCI6MTY1MDIxNDk5MSwiaWF0IjoxNjQ5MDA1MzkxLCJqdGkiOiJiYTAwMjQwZi01NDNkLTQwMDAtOGMzNi04NjFiMDViMjQ1NDgiLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL3d3dy53YXNoaW5ndG9ucG9zdC5jb20vd29ybGQvMjAyMi8wNC8wMy91a3JhaW5lLXJ1c3NpYS1nZW9yZ2lhLyJ9.oQW54JlIgmA6IqqFsNFYT3KcXaWH1PcX2b9Wzl4YLaU&itid=gfta)**
>
> The anti-Putin protesters face anger as well as support in a country with still-raw memories of its own invasion.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3934 "2022-04-03T17:21:30Z")
I’m sorry for them, but I can also understand the feelings of Georgians towards Russians, after years of battle and occupation.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3935 "2022-04-03T18:00:00Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Imho Offering poisoned food and alcohol to Russian troops is a serious mistake. That’s just asking for reprisals.
WTF are they already getting, preprisals?
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3936 "2022-04-03T18:01:10Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> Putin has spent 20 years turning Russia into a corrupt pariah petro-power, not an industrial heavy-weight.
The problem Russia faces in this regard is AGW. As the world seeks to move away from burning trilobites, the global market for Russian burny juice will contract. If they fail to adapt to this (which they tried to do by installing a coal-and-oil-loving stooge in the US WH), their economy will be in, shall we say, a world of hurt. This could well lead to more aggression, as economics is the base foundation of war to begin with.
The global community needs to tread carefully here, if it wants relative peace. Empowering Russia by helping them work through the imminent difficulties we all face promises to be problematic if they continue to take the expansionist position. On the other hand, fuel is major facilitator when it comes to maintaining a large country, and it is difficult to see how the major powers will be able to persist across a drastic fossil fuel draw-down.
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3937 "2022-04-03T18:14:43Z")
> [@velomont](#):
>
> And if I was a gambling man, I would be tempted to give Ukraine an immediate membership in NATO right now and then go in and help Ukraine get rid of the invaders and clean up the mess.
Unfortunately impossible until Dombas and Crimea are either ceded to Russia or retaken by Ukraine. But heck at this point Ukraine ought to develop its own short-range tactical nukes.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3938 "2022-04-03T18:18:08Z")
If it tried to do that, it would come under sanctions of its own, designed to prevent nuclear spread. Plus, its GDP is not high; developing nukes from scratch is tremendously expensive. And there’s a war on, which is taking up its resources.
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### Author:  [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3939 "2022-04-03T18:26:58Z")
Does anybody have non-nuclear tipped ICBMs in their inventory, or a conventionally tipped tactical missile with sufficient range, that could be given to Ukraine, that could be targeted at Moscow?
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### Author:  [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3940 "2022-04-03T18:35:11Z")
I guess this is well-known, but I don’t remember it coming up in this thread. Ukraine had nuclear weapons left over from USSR, but agreed to give them up in a show of good faith.
[Ukraine and weapons of mass destruction - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine#:~:text=The%20Chinese%20Government%20welcomes%20the,non%2Dnuclear%2Dweapon%20State).
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3941 "2022-04-03T19:03:51Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> I’m sorry for them, but I can also understand the feelings of Georgians towards Russians, after years of battle and occupation.
Agreeing with both parts of that.
I posted that story to point out additional complications in the situation (and, I suppose, to point out yet another way in which Putin is screwing up other Russians; though I don’t think he cares.)
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### Author:  [@eschrodinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschrodinger)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3942 "2022-04-03T19:07:14Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#):
>
> Washington Post, but should be a gift link, so anyone should be able to read it:
How do you do this? I’m a subscriber too, and I’ve looked but can’t figure out how to do it.
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Imho Offering poisoned food and alcohol to Russian troops is a serious mistake. That’s just asking for reprisals.
That’s the kind of action civilians take in response to an occupying force. And it really only works if the occupying force thinks they are not as unwelcome and hated as they actually are. I mean, why would you accept food and drink from the residents of the place you’re occupying? It may lead to reprisals against those involved, but it also sends a strong message about the chances of Russia actually being able to hold parts of Ukraine.
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3943 "2022-04-03T19:11:14Z")
> [@eschrodinger](#):
>
> How do you do this? I’m a subscriber too, and I’ve looked but can’t figure out how to do it.
Somewhere near the top of the page , I think it was right above the text, there’s a batch of symbols; one of them looks like a gift box. Click on that, and you get a batch of options; I used the one that says “copy the link” and then pasted it into the post.
You get ten shares a month, I think. I don’t know whether it’s more if you’re paying more than the budget deal price for the subscription.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3944 "2022-04-03T19:13:16Z")
> [@enipla](#):
>
> I hate keeping the sanctions, and am troubled what it may do to the average Russian (and it’s going to fuck with the rest of the world as well). But I think they will need to remain in place for a while.
>
> Perhaps that will encourage change from within.
When have sanctions ever worked? Because I can’t think of an instance. I do hope someone can point to a case there there was a positive effect.
More often, it seems that society’s elite can evade them and it’s the common/poor people that suffer the worst.
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### Author:  [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3945 "2022-04-03T19:14:36Z")
Didn’t sanctions help end apartheid in South Africa?
(I originally wrote that I was an early teenager as an excuse for not having paid attention at the time, but turns out I was 20.)
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3946 "2022-04-03T19:15:56Z")
South Africa. I remember when South African wines were not available, and some people were saying that the sanctions just hurt people who worked in the industry, who didn’t make a lot of money. And then we heard from South African labour unions who said to keep the sanctions on, even though it did have that immediate effect, because the long-term effects were positive.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3947 "2022-04-03T19:17:40Z")
>
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3948 "2022-04-03T19:17:46Z")
There’s also the article I posted earlier that sanctions are starting to bite Russia’s war industry, by denying them high tech chips and components that they need to keep building tanks. It will always be difficult to point to particular measures, but that doesn’t mean they have no effect.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 3, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3949 "2022-04-03T19:19:55Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Imho Offering poisoned food and alcohol to Russian troops is a serious mistake. That’s just asking for reprisals.
I see your point, but do those people have any other alternative? Because it sure seems like the Russians might kill them no matter what, in which case why not take a few any way you can?
Not that I’m OK with that, but I can see a certain sort of reasoning there.
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> WTF are they already getting, preprisals?
^ Yeah, that.
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