### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3990 "2022-04-04T13:24:51Z")
Russia’s Wagner Group mercenaries (who are trained at Russian military bases):
[https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1510885041290813442](https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1510885041290813442)
From Wikipedia:
> [@](#):
>
> The Wagner Group itself was first active in 2014, along with Utkin, in the Luhansk region of Ukraine. The company’s name comes from Utkin’s own call sign “Wagner” after the German composer Richard Wagner, which he is said to have chosen due to his passion for the Third Reich (Wagner being Adolf Hitler’s favorite composer).
Wagner Group logo:
[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/81/Wagnerlogo.png](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/81/Wagnerlogo.png)
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMMwoxGWjJI)
---
### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3991 "2022-04-04T13:25:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> Really, the likeliest - by a long shot - scenario is it was a Ukrainian operation and they’re just trying to keep the Russians off balance.
Oh, no question, I agree completely — this was almost certainly a Ukrainian attack, and they’re basically trolling Putin by denying any knowledge of it. But the post was about making a list of the possible explanations, and this one, however remotely likely, was missing. That’s all.
---
### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3992 "2022-04-04T13:28:10Z")
Some uplifting news after a grim weekend.
A Ukrainian soldier visits parents in previously occupied town. The joy and excitement in the video made my morning. It’s the first time that I’ve seen the inside of a small Ukrainian home. Thankfully it appears undamaged.
>
---
### Author:  [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3993 "2022-04-04T13:28:51Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> Russia’s Wagner Group mercenaries
I heard an interview on NPR about them with an audio clip in which a group of them in Syria were standing around a man as they smashed his hands with a sledge-hammer. They were joking and laughing their asses off as they did this. Then they beheaded him.
Apparently they are really, really evil.
---
### Author:  [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3994 "2022-04-04T14:17:46Z")
If only the never-ending inventiveness of how to make a human being suffer was put to good use, solving actual problems.
---
### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3995 "2022-04-04T14:22:35Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#):
>
> Which is a problem with a self-identified major power “losing” while still able to convince themselves _“but we were not defeated fair and square!”_ Plenty of _Dolchstoßlegende_ -fodder at hand. It was trade sanctions, it was corrupt Army/FSB officers, it was being soft on liberal values, it was unpatriotic degenerates in our own population, it was outsiders arming the fascists, it was perfidious NATO not abiding by the “deal” to not move eastward, … _but in a just world we should have prevailed_ .
It wouldn’t be the first time the losing side convinced themselves, for a very long time, that they had been in the right.
> **[Lost Cause of the Confederacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Cause_of_the_Confederacy)**
>
> The Lost Cause of the Confederacy (or simply the Lost Cause) is an American pseudohistorical negationist myth that claims the cause of the Confederate States during the American Civil War was just, heroic, and not centered on slavery. First enunciated in 1866, it has continued to influence racism, gender roles, and religious attitudes in the Southern United States to the present day. The Lost Cause's false historiography – much of it based on rhetoric mythologizing Robe Beyond forced unpaid l...
---
### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3996 "2022-04-04T14:27:59Z")
Not to mention the Germans after WWI.
And of course France after the very decisive Franco-Prussian War. France lost its ascendant position in Europe and a unified Germany was forged.
I’m sure there are many other examples in history.
---
### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3997 "2022-04-04T14:29:07Z")
Americans will be rationalizing Vietnam and Iraq for a very long time.
---
### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3998 "2022-04-04T14:29:27Z")
Election-wise we have our own more recent version right here in the US of A.
---
### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3999 "2022-04-04T14:36:16Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#):
>
> Why can’t a nation of 330 million produce one politician who (given the usual translation glitches) can speak like that?
Pressure makes diamonds.
---
### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4000 "2022-04-04T15:04:04Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#):
>
> > [@eschereal](#):
> >
> > Japan surrendered under somewhat unfavorable terms.
>
> It was not “somewhat unfavorable terms” but a complete surrender, with the only condition was the the emperor was retained, but his position of authority was removed. In all other regards, it was an unconditional surrender and Japan was occupied.
" Function of Understatement
An understatement is a tool that helps to develop other [figures of speech](https://literarydevices.net/figure-of-speech/), such as irony and [sarcasm](https://literarydevices.net/sarcasm/), by deliberately decreasing the severity of a situation, when an intense response is expected by [the listeners](https://literarydevices.net/the-listeners/) or the readers."
---
### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4001 "2022-04-04T15:58:17Z")
How does President Volodymyr Zelenskiy walk without clanking his brass balls?
He’s visiting Bucha and seeing first-hand what the Russians did. He televised a speech from Bucha.
Russian missile launchers could still target Bucha. But, Zelenskiy is there representing Ukraine 🇺🇦
[https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-president-says-russian-actions-ukraine-make-negotiations-harder-2022-04-04/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-president-says-russian-actions-ukraine-make-negotiations-harder-2022-04-04/)
> [@](#):
>
> Zelenskiy spoke on national television from the town of Bucha in the Kyiv region, where tied bodies shot at close range, a mass grave and other signs of executions have been found in territory retaken from Russian troops.
> [Snip]
> After Zelenskiy spoke, Ukrainian officials took journalists to the basement of what they said was a summer residence for children and showed them the bodies of five men with their hands tied behind their backs.
---
### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4002 "2022-04-04T15:58:28Z")
Pro-Russian separatists with Nazi symbols:
>
[ ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPgmjKPWYAExfUD?format=jpg&name=small)
[ ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPgoqDGXMAYm-Xv?format=jpg&name=small)
[ ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FPgo614XEAQ_Chx?format=jpg&name=small)
---
### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4003 "2022-04-04T16:07:35Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> > [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#):
> >
> > Why can’t a nation of 330 million produce one politician who (given the usual translation glitches) can speak like that?
>
> Pressure makes diamonds.
Sometimes.
Unfortunately, rather too often it makes coal dust; which gets into everything and is very bad for breathing.
---
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4004 "2022-04-04T16:19:00Z")
> [@velomont](#):
>
> > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
> >
> > Russia’s Wagner Group mercenaries
>
> I heard an interview on NPR about them with an audio clip in which a group of them in Syria were standing around a man as they smashed his hands with a sledge-hammer. They were joking and laughing their asses off as they did this. Then they beheaded him.
>
> Apparently they are really, really evil.
Wagner Group tried to take their fight against U.S. special forces in Syria in February 2018. They, and the Syrian regime forces, outnumbered the Americans around 15-to-1. But they forgot to take American airpower and rocket artillery into account, and were massacred while the Americans didn’t suffer even a single wounded.
---
### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4005 "2022-04-04T17:08:18Z")
I think Bucha is a turning point in this war and for Russia. What happened there is sickening and the International community is watching. I can’t see how Russia can ever regain its place among nations with Putin in charge.
I know Russia has done the same thing in Gronzy and Aleppo. The world wasn’t paying close attention. They didn’t have a powerful voice like Zelensky.
I normally wouldn’t link the daily mail. But they have a lot of photos of Zelensky visiting Bucha. He’s visibly shaken up. The mayor and his wife’s bodies showed torture. (no photos)
There’s some video of Zelensky addressing reporters. I haven’t seen him this emotional. The burden of his office has to be overwhelming.
> **[Zelensky says he finds it 'difficult to talk' as he surveys Bucha](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10684331/Emotional-Zelensky-says-finds-difficult-talk-surveys-carnage-Bucha.html)**
>
> Volodymyr Zelensky today stood motionless as he surveyed the scene of utter devastation he encountered in the town of Bucha, with dozens of bodies shot at close range laying on the streets.
---
### Author:  [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4006 "2022-04-04T17:38:33Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> I can’t see how Russia can ever regain its place among nations with Putin in charge.
I think in this respect Russia will be ostracized for a long time, even after Putin is gone. For such ostracization **not** to occur Putin will have to be succeeded by someone who has a strange mix of strength - in order to maintain his/her position against desperate, hard-line coup plotters - and true, visible and demonstrable repentance that is perhaps so demonstrable that he or she invites representatives from the west to audit the tear-down of all of Russia’s nuclear weapons. Otherwise there is going to be a heavily, nuclear armed failed state among us for a long time.
---
### Author:  [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4007 "2022-04-04T17:52:21Z")
Ukraine denies (or at least say they don’t know anything about it) the attack on the fuel facility in Russia. Trolling Russia? Cool. Why would the U.S. confirm publicly that it was a Ukrainian attack?
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4008 "2022-04-04T18:11:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> I think Bucha is a turning point in this war and for Russia. What happened there is sickening and the International community is watching. I can’t see how Russia can ever regain its place among nations with Putin in charge.
Agreed. And there have been many such turning points, with Putin and Russia spiraling lower and lower with each one. At this point I don’t see how Putin can safely travel outside Russia ever again. Biden has now publicly called for him to be tried for war crimes.
---
### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 4, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4009 "2022-04-04T18:13:52Z")
> [@wolfpup](#):
>
> At this point I don’t see how Putin can safely travel outside Russia ever again.
Agreed. And that has to be the case for pretty much any Russian politician or military commander. Even absent the outcome of being arrested for war crimes, they’d have a target on their back anywhere in the world.
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