# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 205
### Author:  [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4143 "2022-04-06T14:19:54Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Ukraine is getting more tanks. They need to resupply quickly and build defenses.
IMHO it’s time to consider supplying western weapons. Yes, give them those Soviet tanks and this MiG-29s (are they still sitting in Poland somewhere?), but also send some Abrams tanks, A-10 Warthogs, F-16s / F-18s / whatever the latest fighter jets we have, and work on getting the Ukrainian forces trained on using them.
---
### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4144 "2022-04-06T14:40:42Z")
I hope NATO gives Ukraine betfer weapons. Do something before all of Ukraine’s major cities are in ruins.
Russia’s scorched earth policy is a game changer, The West can’t sit back and allow genocide.
---
### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4145 "2022-04-06T14:55:43Z")
From an [NPR story](https://www.npr.org/2022/04/05/1091109360/russia-continues-to-have-an-big-impact-in-parts-of-eastern-europe-like-moldova) yesterday:
> LANGFITT: … I bumped into Igor Kolsa (ph). He’s a musician who plays the trumpet. We were about a block from a statue of Vladimir Lenin, and I asked him whom he supported in the war across the border.
>
> IGOR KOLSA: (Through translator) Yeah, for sure. I always support the Russian.
>
> LANGFITT: Why?
>
> KOLSA: (Through translator) Because they are honest and they are right.
>
> LANGFITT: And what do you think is the best argument for the invasion?
>
> KOLSA: (Through translator) To take out Nazism and fascism in Ukraine.
>
> LANGFITT: Kolsa’s referring to President Putin’s false claim that his soldiers went to Ukraine to denazify by the country. He’s surprised that I don’t seem better-informed.
>
> KOLSA: (Through translator) You don’t see on TV how the Nazis are dealing with the people, how they treat them?
>
> LANGFITT: Give me some examples.
>
> KOLSA: (Through translator) While they were manning the bomb shelters, they manning the roads, they didn’t let the people, you know, to get out of the war. And Russia does opposite. They’re bringing the humanitarian help.
>
> LANGFITT: In fact, Russian artillery has hit civilian targets. This exchange, which I had with a number of people in Gagauzia, is a reminder of the power of Russian disinformation, as well as the complex politics in this small frontline state, and how support for Russia in this war can defy borders. Frank Langfitt, NPR News, Moldovan-controlled Transnistria.
---
### Author:  [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4146 "2022-04-06T15:29:17Z")
I hope, after some positive resolution, the Russian population gets to or is forced to learn the real truth, and sees the wanton death and destruction their government caused, to the point that they actually believe and understand what happened. I can’t even imagine what that would do to your head.
---
### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4147 "2022-04-06T15:32:13Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#):
>
> IMHO it’s time to consider supplying western weapons.
They’d have to send western soldiers to operate them. The reason the West is sending Russian and Soviet weapons is because those are the ones Ukrainians know how to use. The Ukrainians are little too busy now to take time off for training.
---
### Author:  [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4148 "2022-04-06T15:48:25Z")
> [@velomont](#):
>
> I hope, after some positive resolution, the Russian population gets to or is forced to learn the real truth, and sees the wanton death and destruction their government caused, to the point that they actually believe and understand what happened. I can’t even imagine what that would do to your head.
The US did something similar after WWII. Showing Germans films of death camps.
---
### Author:  [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4149 "2022-04-06T15:49:46Z")
ISTR people who lived near death camps being forced on in-person tours, or even to help with burial of victims, by Allied soldiers.
---
### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4150 "2022-04-06T15:52:58Z")
>
---
### Author:  [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4151 "2022-04-06T16:17:50Z")
> [@Seanette](#):
>
> ISTR people who lived near death camps being forced on in-person tours, or even to help with burial of victims, by Allied soldiers.
Yes I remember learning about that.
Fly C-17-loads of Muscovites to various Ukrainian cities for the same purposes would be good, but probably never possible, unfortunately.
---
### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4152 "2022-04-06T16:26:28Z")
There are things people don’t know and things people just don’t want to admit (even to themselves) knowing. I suspect most Germans in 1945 fell into the latter category. I think the same is probably true for most Russians today. Just like Germans under Nazism, they know what their government is capable of.
---
### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4153 "2022-04-06T17:11:13Z")
The Ukrainians are using smart tactics. One Ukrainian tank hid behind houses and had a line of fire at the road. Damaged several Russian tanks and armored personnel carrier.
Flags on the video identity the forces. The Ukrainian tank is in the lower left corner and shoots diagonally at the road. Tracer rounds from the Russians miss the tank. He lives to fight again.
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S27kw7XVvSA)
---
### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4154 "2022-04-06T17:39:49Z")
> **[Suspected 'Butcher of Bucha' commander who led Russian forces in massacred town](https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/suspected-commander-russian-operations-named-26631356)**
>
> WARNING - DISTRESSING CONTENT: Lt Colonel Azatbek Omurbekov leads the 64th Separate Motorised Rifle Brigade which occupied the Kyiv region where troops are accused of massacring the local population, it is alleged
---
### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4155 "2022-04-06T17:40:15Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#):
>
> IMHO it’s time to consider supplying western weapons. Yes, give them those Soviet tanks and this MiG-29s (are they still sitting in Poland somewhere?), but also send some Abrams tanks, A-10 Warthogs, F-16s / F-18s / whatever the latest fighter jets we have, and work on getting the Ukrainian forces trained on using them.
I would give any Soviet tanks back to Russia. They’re death traps that block the road when hit.
I would think they could use more radar artillery that can trace the launch of enemy artillery and respond back.
And I would send them a large supply of the best anti-aircraft,anti-ship, and anti-missile systems available.
---
### Author:  [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4156 "2022-04-06T18:16:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> I would think they could use more radar artillery that can trace the launch of enemy artillery and respond back.
That’s a good idea. Give Ukraine plenty of self-propelled artillery and training in fighting a counterbattery battle. Sit back and watch Russia’s artillery corps, doing city demolition block by block, get attritted away by Ukrainian guns.
Of course, I’m probably thinking about things the old way. Maybe counterbattery would be done better these days by swarms of drones, some for recon and others to suicide-dive with a load of high explosive on any Russian howitzers they find.
---
### Author:  [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4157 "2022-04-06T18:24:40Z")
> [@velomont](#):
>
> I hope, after some positive resolution, the Russian population gets to or is forced to learn the real truth,
The reality of politics in America has jaded made to the point that I don’t think this is even possible. No moreso than convincing the Q brigade that their dopey conspiracy theories are just that.
How do you come back from propaganda?
---
### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4158 "2022-04-06T18:28:02Z")
> [@SunUp](#):
>
> Of course, I’m probably thinking about things the old way. Maybe counterbattery would be done better these days by swarms of drones, some for recon and others to suicide-dive with a load of high explosive on any Russian howitzers they find.
I’ve been thinking about posting on tactics and strategy, either here or in a new thread. (NB: I have zero military training.) But since you brought it up, I think Bayraktar drones, small, bomb-carrying drones, ‘suicide drones’, etc. would be more agile than artillery batteries. Of course, artillery batteries would also give the Russians a pounding. I’d like to see more MANPADS too, as well as larger missiles, to help claim air superiority.
---
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4159 "2022-04-06T18:35:06Z")
> [@eschereal](#):
>
> Well, calling it a country-sized concentration camp is a bit off. The Soviets held Ukraine and the Caspian region from the outset, as they were vassal divisions of the Tsarist Russian Empire.
Not quite. The Ukrainian People’s Republic was independent from 1917 to 1920 (or 1921, depending how you look at it. )
And when the UN was formed, the Soviet Union claimed Ukraine was a independent nation, and insisted they get their own seat in the UN.
But this is mostly quibbling, your post is solid.
---
### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4160 "2022-04-06T19:04:39Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#):
>
> They’d have to send western soldiers to operate them.
Plus – as the Russkies learned – a whole logistical chain would have to be established, ammunition and parts, to say nothing of _also_ having to train additional people to maintain the AFVs, people needed to carry a weapon.
---
### Author:  [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4161 "2022-04-06T19:12:38Z")
bump
Come to find out they are sending [TEN (10) measly one-time use Switchblade drones](https://gazette.com/news/us-world/us-sending-10-tank-busting-switchblade-drones-to-ukraine-report/article_a868eca4-4881-5c71-a365-0b05213866f4.html). Seems like we could offer more meaningful assistance than that.
---
### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4162 "2022-04-06T19:26:19Z")
It’s 10 of the larger tank killer drones, the S600. That’s in addition to 100 of the smaller version, the S300, that is capable of taking out anything else the Russians have including artillery pieces and light armored vehicles. It still seems like a small number, but I really don’t know what kind of inventory the US has for this kind of stuff. These S600s are coming straight from the factory.
ETA: Anyone else think the civilian death toll is way too low? About 1500 after five weeks of shelling cities seems really low. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that Kyiv alone had more than that.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=204)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=206)