# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 206
### Author:  [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4163 "2022-04-06T19:33:31Z")
All I can figure is maybe it’s a ‘sampler pack’. You know, try out these free samples of our products. If you like any of them, we have operators standing by to take additional orders.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4164 "2022-04-06T19:40:31Z")
[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine) has 6,719–7,046+ civilians killed, according to Ukrainian government figures, and 1,563 civilians killed, according to United Nations.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4165 "2022-04-06T19:47:31Z")
Time to end this humanitarian crisis before more civilians die.
Send in the B-2s, F-35s to strike Russian targets in Ukraine (and Ukraine only), and a video of Biden blinking eyelashes slowly, “Putin, those 6,000 nukes you claim to have? You don’t get to use them, nuh-uh…” (blinks eyelashes even more slowly)
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4166 "2022-04-06T19:50:02Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine) has 6,719–7,046+ civilians killed, according to Ukrainian government figures, and 1,563 civilians killed, according to United Nations.
I think I saw the 1500 from Human Rights Watch, but that’s about the same as the UN. The Ukrainian number seems more in line with the heavy shelling. The UN wounded number seems way too low if the 1500 dead is correct. I suspect it will be years until they will be able to figure a somewhat accurate account. Heck, it’s going to take a long time to figure out who left the country safely and who’s missing.
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### Author:  [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4167 "2022-04-06T20:13:15Z")
> [@EllisDee](#):
>
> The reality of politics in America has jaded made to the point that I don’t think this is even possible. No moreso than convincing the Q brigade that their dopey conspiracy theories are just that.
>
> How do you come back from propaganda?
I recall hearing of the “mental shock” to the Russian people in the 1990’s when a lot of dirt came out over what happened during the Soviet era. Maybe they now try to find comfort in denial - ever more strident denial trying to drown out the little voice within says “You know it’s happened before, and is happening now.”
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### Author:  [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4168 "2022-04-06T20:15:00Z")
This isn’t a video game you know.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4169 "2022-04-06T20:31:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> And when the UN was formed, the Soviet Union claimed Ukraine was a independent nation, and insisted they get their own seat in the UN.
Ukraine and Belarus getting UN seats was a quid pro quo for India and the Philippines getting seats, even though they were under British and US control at the time.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4170 "2022-04-06T20:38:49Z")
Given that the Soviet Union hasn’t existed in decades, and the Soviet Union was the country that was given a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, what’s Russia doing there?
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4171 "2022-04-06T20:40:30Z")
They should be removed from the UN Security Council. They’re a third-rate country who has invaded their neighbor, and needs to be removed from the company of civilized nations.
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### Author:  [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4172 "2022-04-06T20:44:17Z")
Allowing an aggressor country to have veto power on the UNSC basically makes the UN (even more) useless. Of course, that argument would have cut against the US in the past. At the very least there should be mandatory recusal (although I do support the contention that Russia is not the USSR).
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4173 "2022-04-06T20:48:13Z")
Perhaps the rule should be: you have nukes, you can lobby the UNSC, but you do not get a vote on it, much less a veto.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4174 "2022-04-06T20:52:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> Given that the Soviet Union hasn’t existed in decades, and the Soviet Union was the country that was given a permanent seat on the UN Security Council, what’s Russia doing there?
It’s the principle of international succession. When there are changes in a country, like break-ups or amalgamations, the new country can succeed to the international treaties of the predecessor. When the USSR broke up, it was accepted that Russia was the successor to the USSR in the UN.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4175 "2022-04-06T21:12:00Z")
This video is so choppily edited it’s impossible to tell everything that happened or if it’s even taken from one battle. I see the vehicle in defilade destroying one enemy vehicle. The title of the youtube video is certainly ridiculous.
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### Author:  [@Latimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latimera)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4176 "2022-04-06T21:21:38Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> Send in the B-2s, F-35s to strike Russian targets in Ukraine (and Ukraine only), and a video of Biden blinking eyelashes slowly, “Putin, those 6,000 nukes you claim to have? You don’t get to use them, nuh-uh…” (blinks eyelashes even more slowly)
Right…no chance that will make things worse…[sarcasm]
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4177 "2022-04-06T21:27:06Z")
Ukraine Weapons Tracker has [a better description](https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1511382917712429056):
> [@](#):
>
> Remarkable footage of a single UA T-64BV tank engaging a Russian convoy, destroying a BTR-82A from an ambush position. Though other shots miss, appears that this held up the convoy enough for UA indirect fire to strike it, taking out other armour & leading to a retreat.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4178 "2022-04-06T21:32:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> This video is so choppily edited it’s impossible to tell everything that happened or if it’s even taken from one battle. I see the vehicle in defilade destroying one enemy vehicle. The title of the youtube video is certainly ridiculous.
The video title is greatly exaggerated. They usually are on YouTube. At most only two or three Russian heavy vehicles got hit.
It’s the tactics that’s interesting. Ukraine is conserving their resources and minimizing risk to their forces. They only committed one tank to disrupt the Russian column.
Unfortunately that style of fighting won’t push Russian forces out of Eastern Ukraine.
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4179 "2022-04-06T21:45:28Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> The Ukrainians are using smart tactics. One Ukrainian tank hid behind houses and had a line of fire at the road. Damaged several Russian tanks and armored personnel carrier.
I knew all those hours of playing Battlezone would pay off!
> [@Chingon](#):
>
> This isn’t a video game you know.
\< shuffles off, ashamed \>
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4180 "2022-04-06T21:56:24Z")
It’s not a video game, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the Ukrainian fighters are gamers. They are thinking independently and improvising tactics. They’ve survived the war by avoiding large, Armored battles against the Russian forces.
Russian soldiers are still stuck with a very hierarchical command structure and Soviet era tactics. The Chechen fighters may be the exception. They may fight much differently.
Interesting analysis of how the battle will change in Eastern Ukraine. The Russians are dug in and will have an advantage in a traditional Tank battle.
> **[As Ukraine war enters new phase, can western arms turn the tide?](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/06/as-ukraine-war-enters-new-phase-can-western-arms-turn-the-tide)**
>
> Analysis: Poor Russian tactics and Ukrainian determination gave early successes, but forces in east and south are more dug in
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4181 "2022-04-06T22:13:47Z")
Can twelve men make a difference? I assume they were trained to help Ukraine’s army learn NATO tactics. Perhaps lead the military.
They’ll have to jump directly into the war. Hopefully the drone operators will fight remotely from secure Western Ukraine bases. Don’t want to get these trained men killed in the first week.
Guardian blog
> [@](#):
>
> **A small number of Ukrainian soldiers received drone training in the US, said the Pentagon today** , reported AFP.
>
> > A small group of Ukrainian soldiers who were already in the United States before Russia’s invasion of their country are being trained to use the deadly Switchblade drones Washington is supplying to Kyiv, a Pentagon official said Wednesday.
> >
> > “A very small number of Ukrainians… were already here in the United States going through some professional military education,” the senior defense official said, requesting anonymity.
> >
> > “We took advantage of the opportunity to pull them aside for a couple of days and provide them some training, particularly on the Switchblade (drones) that is a system that is not organic to the Ukrainian military,” he said.
> >
> > The group, made up of “less than a dozen” people, “will be heading back into Ukraine relatively soon” as originally planned, he added…
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 6, 2022, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4182 "2022-04-06T22:56:17Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> ETA: Anyone else think the civilian death toll is way too low? About 1500 after five weeks of shelling cities seems really low. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that Kyiv alone had more than that.
I’m assuming the numbers given are _confirmed_ deaths, as opposed to however many are as yet undiscovered under building rubble or in hastily dug graves.
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