# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/401 "2022-02-27T16:14:52Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > Canada doing the same. I saw on CBC a couple of hours ago that we just did - I’m glad to see. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/402 "2022-02-27T16:28:42Z")
Wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/403 "2022-02-27T16:29:24Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > Canada Not only are there financial sanctions there is a massive loss of passenger and package flights into Russia. That means a loss of airlift of products into Russia. A lot of people don’t realize that international passenger flights carry a great deal of freight on them. The affect will be instantly noticeable to the Russian people. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/404 "2022-02-27T16:42:01Z")
There will then be a loss of cargo ships into Russia so the slower freight shipments will be noticed in the weeks and months to follow. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/405 "2022-02-27T16:44:32Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > So, here’s a dumb question: has there been a “why” communicated over all this? I think different people are going to give you different answers to this. My take as to why has more to do with Putin and Russian perception that Ukraine has been part of Russia since ancient times coupled with the perceived threat Russia has from NATO and western expansion. After the cold war, a lot of eastern European nations or former territories of the Soviet Union ran to the west for protection…and, for a variety of reasons, were allowed to join NATO and in some cases the EU as well. This did not sit well with the Russians, and I think that it’s really burned and ate at Putin for a long time. I don’t think it’s the military threat of NATO, but instead the overall threat of western influence and prosperity that really scares him. After all, Russia SHOULD be part of all of this, their natural markets should be Europe, and they could and should be just as prosperous as the former Soviet puppets in the eastern bloc. But they aren’t. If Ukraine joined the west and also became really prosperous and western, well…that wouldn’t be a great example for the Russia people on a lot of levels, including the whole democracy one. > [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > Let’s say the invasion had totally gone in Russia’s favor. What did Putin hope to gain? I think he hoped to gain part of Ukraine (the south eastern parts that had been in rebellion against Ukraine for a while now) directly as Russian territory. Same as Crimea. As for the rest, I think he planned for them to surrender and to install a puppet state that would bring them fully into Russia’s sphere of influence and away from the west permanently. > [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > It’s not like Russia is crowded & running out of land. No, and that’s not why he wanted Ukraine. It has nothing to do with wanting more room for the Russian people. If anything, Russia is in the middle of a huge population implosion and brain drain, so they don’t need to take Ukraine as an outlet for a growing population they don’t have. > [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > (I can’t help but feel like this entire near-international-war has been one gigantic pissing contest.) In a pissing contest you have to have two contestants. No one else was contesting that Putin had the most piss of anyone. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/406 "2022-02-27T16:45:23Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > A lot of experts on Russia and Putin agree that his decision to invade was totally irrational. It’s only irrational if you don’t believe Putin when he flat out says what his intentions are. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/407 "2022-02-27T16:49:16Z")
President Zelensky of Ukraine [agreed to talks with Russia](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/27/world/russia-ukraine-war/ukraine-russia-talks-zelensky-putin) on the Ukrainian-Belarusian border. This conflict has some parallels with the 1956 Soviet invasion of Hungary. So it’s worth noting that, when the defense minister of Hungary in 1956 arrived for scheduled “negotiations” with the Soviets, the KGB arrested him on the spot. He was later executed. Would you put it past Putin to do something comparable? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/408 "2022-02-27T16:51:42Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > President Zelensky of Ukraine [agreed to talks with Russia](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/02/27/world/russia-ukraine-war/ukraine-russia-talks-zelensky-putin) on the Ukrainian-Belarusian border. I hope Zelensky himself doesn’t go, because OF COURSE the Russians will murder him. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/409 "2022-02-27T16:52:27Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > Would you put it past Putin to do something comparable? I think a more plausible scenario is a ‘crazed soldier’ or perhaps ‘foreign infiltrator’ takes a shot at Zelensky. Arresting him and then trumping up a trial or whatever I don’t think would fly. But some sort of assassination that, of course had nothing to do with Russia (and butter couldn’t melt in their mouth) could happen. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/410 "2022-02-27T16:53:28Z")
It’s also irrational if you believe Putin, at least from what I can tell so far from what’s actually happened in Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/411 "2022-02-27T16:53:47Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I hope Zelensky himself doesn’t go, because OF COURSE the Russians will murder him. Which is why he will go instead of sending someone else. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/412 "2022-02-27T16:54:14Z")
They’ve already announced Zelensky isn’t going himself. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/413 "2022-02-27T17:00:22Z")
The answer to “why” is also dependent on which Russia-watchers, historians, political scientists etc you believe. I am none of those, except in a news-addict, amateur history lover, and ex military from '79 to 2011. I think, for the most part, XT’s response is bang on. Earlier today I heard a BBC interview with Anne Applebaum in which she suggested that if Putin is successful with his Ukraine invasion, then he will likely go after the other former Soviet republics, Europe will be in serious danger, and this will be a green light to various other imperial, make-my-country-great-again thugs to take over weaker neighbours, with China and Taiwan being one of her examples. Personally I’m very concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/414 "2022-02-27T17:16:05Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > Putin regards it as a previous part of old Russia. A Russia that predates the last couple of centuries and goes back a thousand years. The US Embassy tweeted out a masterful troll of that notion: > ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/415 "2022-02-27T17:32:59Z")
Cracks are showing in the oligarchy. > **[Two of Russia's billionaires call for peace in Ukraine](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/war-dividing-russian-ukrainian-brothers-billionaire-fridman-says-2022-02-27/)** > > Two Russian billionaires, Mikhail Fridman and Oleg Deripaska, called for an end to the conflict triggered by President Vladimir Putin's assault on Ukraine, with Fridman calling it a tragedy for both countries' people. It would be true Russian irony if none of the democracies prevailed but Putin was taken down by his own props. How many billionaires can he toss in jail before the rest want to protect their money in the worst way? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/416 "2022-02-27T18:02:19Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It would be true Russian irony if none of the democracies prevailed but Putin was taken down by his own props. How many billionaires can he toss in jail before the rest want to protect their money in the worst way? The Russian electorate isn’t the people. It’s the oligarchs and power brokers. Putin doesn’t need to give a shit about the people but he needs to care about these people. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/417 "2022-02-27T18:07:20Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It would be true Russian irony if none of the democracies prevailed but Putin was taken down by his own props. How many billionaires can he toss in jail before the rest want to protect their money in the worst way? Your article shows Western sanctions on the billionaires mentioned. So it seems to be bearing some public fruit. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/418 "2022-02-27T18:21:16Z")
yep … might sound trivial, but there will def. be no more bananas and other “exotics” (all perishable fruit that wont grow there) available in a few days more … There are already videos of lines with 100s of people in moscow in front of ATMs to get some money out … and it seems that anonymous took out the Moscow stock exchange (not sure if thats just their homepage or actually the trading floor) point is: … its gonna be an awful lot of minor pin-pricks for everybody in .ru in the future and there is a REAL chance that they will fall even more behind (e.g. no modern computers as in any other normal country) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/419 "2022-02-27T18:33:45Z")
This is significant because you can arrest protestors and suppress the news but you can’t hide a line of people waiting on everyday items. A line of people is a captive audience of disgruntled citizens with time on their hands to discuss things. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2022, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/420 "2022-02-27T18:34:33Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > Given the AWACS location, while I subscribe to the “Everybody Lies” theory of wartime reporting, I think the US military may have better information than most folks do and hopefully our leaders are being well-briefed. **And moreover, with the plane easily seen by anyone, the message being sent by the US/NATO is 'we’re watching and we don’t care if you like it or not…"** As a guy that runs a couple of ADS-B reporting sites, the interesting thing is all about what we _can_ and _cannot_ see. American military planes can turn off ADS-B reporting any time they feel like it. So this AWACS is merrily broadcasting its location for the whole world to see. What’s out there that is _dark_? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=22)