# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 210
### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4243 "2022-04-07T21:15:45Z")
[Drone terror](https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1512159962797072396). [Russian soldier runs from drone]
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4244 "2022-04-07T21:35:56Z")
How do you say Beetle Bailey in Russian?
đ
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### Author:  [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4245 "2022-04-07T21:42:13Z")
âHey, Vasily, thanks for leading them back to us. Asshole.â
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2022, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4246 "2022-04-07T21:54:05Z")
âHey, comrades! Check out my Cary Grant impersonation!â
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2022, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4247 "2022-04-07T21:59:57Z")
I took a sip of water at just the wrong time and did a minor spit take reading that.
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4248 "2022-04-07T22:03:55Z")
âDonât Run â Youâll Only Die Tiredâ
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4249 "2022-04-07T22:33:36Z")
Would a drone expend its payload on a single soldier? I could see using a warhead to eliminate a high level officer.
Thatâs assuming it is a _armed_ drone.
It was clever to follow the soldier to his unit.
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### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2022, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4250 "2022-04-07T22:49:30Z")
Russia is reportedly using electronic devices to track the locations of Ukrainian-operated drones _and their pilots:_
> **[DJI drones, Ukraine, and Russia â what we know about AeroScope](https://www.theverge.com/22985101/dji-aeroscope-ukraine-russia-drone-tracking)**
>
> Is Chinese drone detection tech getting Ukrainians killed?
A claimed video of a drone pilot being targeted using this system (incoming round at 0:27):
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZXzMUxfR6c)
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2022, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4251 "2022-04-07T23:03:23Z")
>
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2022, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4252 "2022-04-07T23:14:59Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> Russia was using inflatable decoys just last year:
That canât be a Russian tank. The turret is still attached.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2022, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4253 "2022-04-07T23:20:39Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> It was clever to follow the soldier to his unit.
If he survived his new nick name is going to be Human Bread Crumb.
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### Author:  [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)
#### Post date: [April 7, 2022, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4254 "2022-04-07T23:54:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Start by taking out every road and rail bridge and then systematically shutting down Russian pipelines through the Ukraine until reason is restored.
Am I right in seeing this as yet another clusterfuck of a perverse incentive ?
Russia needs the oil and gas revenue. Much of Europe needs the oil and gas.
And Ukraine makes over USD1Bn annually from the transit of LNG _through_ the pipeline.
> **[Can Ukraine do without Russian gas transit fees? â DW â 01/28/2022](https://www.dw.com/en/can-ukraine-do-without-russian-gas-transit-fees/a-60552279)**
>
> Ukraine, which like Poland earns gas transit fees, may have to find ways to diversify its own supplies and rethink its function in the European gas system. Until it does, it will continue to depend on Russia.
> [@](#):
>
> The European Commission told Platts it was working to secure long-term transit through Ukraine beyond the accordâs 2024 expiry date and Ukraine asked Gazprom to extend the deal for a further 15 years, even offering to cut transit fees in half.
>
> âThe key issue is geopolitical, not financial,â Chris Miller, assistant professor of international history at Tufts University, told DW.
>
> âThe Russia-Ukraine contract is a controversial gas contract because of the risk that Russia stops gas transit through Ukraine after the contract expires,â Miller said.
>
> Sergiy Makogon, CEO of GTSOU, told [BNE](https://www.intellinews.com/ukraine-asks-gazprom-to-extend-gas-transit-deal-for-15-years-227856/) last year that if Russia stopped using Ukraine as a transit route after 2024, Ukraine might have to decommission much of its network, as it would be too expensive to maintain. Russia would reportedly have to transit at least 30 bcm via Ukraine each year to keep the domestic pipe network viable commercially.
Russia didnât have _only_ the one choice (to stop transit of LNG through Ukraine). The other âchoiceâ they may have envisioned is to simply blow through Ukraine and take it over in a weekend.
Free transit, in perpetuity. Even more important if **[Nord Stream 2](https://www.dw.com/en/nord-stream-2-who-wins-who-loses/a-60223801)** doesnât go through.
> âOf all the parties and stakeholders involved, if NS2 was finally stopped, the biggest loser would be Putinâs Kremlin,â Schmitt believes. âBy stopping NS2, Gazprom would still rely on the Ukrainian gas transmission system to deliver volumes to EU markets, thus serving as an additional strategic deterrent against further Russian destabilization of Ukraine.â
Doesnât look like this was a âdestabilizationâ play. Whatever else it was about, it offered Russia an opportunity to secure pipeline capacity for its largest LNG customer (and cut the transit fees to zero).
Or so they ⌠maybe ⌠thought.
This is probably a larger geopolitical puzzle piece than at least _I_ had imagined (but I still havenât figured out what other natural resources Ukraine has the Russia lacks).
Meanwhile, the âstrange bedfellowsâ entanglement bit that includes a dependence _of_ Ukraine _on_ Russia is a bit dizzying.
I think this is a fascinating pair of articles, both written _before_ the invasion.
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2022, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4255 "2022-04-08T00:16:54Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#):
>
> but I still havenât figured out what other natural resources Ukraine has the Russia lacks
Several ice-free ports?
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2022, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4256 "2022-04-08T01:01:26Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> [Drone terror](https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1512159962797072396). [Russian soldier runs from drone]
Iâm skeptical on this one. What was he doing so far from his buddies? When youâre in a combat zone you like to be with a bunch of friends unless youâre a scout, and a scout should know better than to expose himself like that.
Also, in the Ukranian population vs. the Russian one debate, the rule of thumb is that when attacking an entrenched enemy you like to have a 3:1 advantage, locally. This is standard mobile warfare tactics: Probe for weak spots and zerg rush where you find one.
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### Author:  [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2022, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4257 "2022-04-08T01:52:40Z")
> [@DesertDog](#):
>
> Also, in the Ukranian population vs. the Russian one debate, the rule of thumb is that when attacking an entrenched enemy you like to have a 3:1 advantage, locally. This is standard mobile warfare tactics: Probe for weak spots and zerg rush where you find one.
Yeah, thatâs the thing thatâs confused me about this whole nastiness. The Russians never had that advantage, anywhere. Even if they decided to just limit themselves to their current goals, they didnât really have the manpower to do it. Even at the beginning before Ukraine began to mobilize for defense.
As it is now, they seem to only have the manpower to make this long and drawn out. Ukraine will most likely win, but in how many years and at what cost is a very debatable subject. It will be months, at least. The dark hilarity of the situation is highlighted by a recent report I read that a Russian soldier divulged to a Ukrainian civilian that the plan was to have Kyiv captured in four days. That was never going to happen.
So, as it is now, Iâm in the group that says to transport some Ukrainian troops out of Ukraine, train them on modern NATO weapons, and send them back with as much of those weapons you can muster. On top of that, send anything you think they can use now. In the words of the Ukrainian foreign minister, they are offering the fairest of deals:
> [@](#):
>
> You provide us for everything we need, and we will fight for our security but also for your security, so that President Putin will have no chance to test Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty"
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### Author:  [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4258 "2022-04-08T02:25:57Z")
> [@eschereal](#):
>
> Several ice-free ports?
Russia does still have ONE major warm water port - Murmansk. The warm Atlantic current keeps it clear, despite it being above the Arctic circle (really itâs almost ridiculous how far north it is and still ice-free).
Probably fair to say with modern ice-breakers this is slightly less of an impediment than it used to be in, say, the 19th century. But it certainly is an issue.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2022, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4259 "2022-04-08T03:22:05Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> The thing is, the Ukrainians are fighting an existential threat to a nation of 40+ million, and if only 1/2 or 1/3 of that number of citizens fights thatâs _still_ larger than any army on Earth.
While I see your point in that the resister can take more casualties,
1. Of course nowhere near that many Ukrainians will take up arms, and
2. A civilian with a gun isnât a soldier. Heâs a civilian with a gun.
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### Author:  [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2022, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4261 "2022-04-08T03:53:03Z")
Ahh, but if your ratio is even just 2000000/200000, you can eventually rotate out enough of your territorial defense troops and train them. Training is how you make a civilian with a gun into a trained soldier, and itâs pretty much the only difference between the two. Ukraine seems to have reached the point where they can start doing that. Heck, they donât really have much choice.
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2022, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4262 "2022-04-08T06:10:56Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#):
>
> Russia is reportedly using electronic devices to track the locations of Ukrainian-operated drones _and their pilots:_
>
> [DJI drones, Ukraine, and Russia â what we know about AeroScope - The Verge](https://www.theverge.com/22985101/dji-aeroscope-ukraine-russia-drone-tracking)
That article is filled with so many ifs, ands or buts itâs totally useless. It even outright admits there is no confirmation that this has ever happened. And once again, the video tells us nothing. First off, if both the drone and the operator are trackable, hitting the operator would be the priority every time. One less experienced operator, one crashed drone. Plus, itâs a little tough to hit a moving airborne target as small as that drone from any distance, especially with artillery. And thatâs if Russia has the ability to track and fire on the drone in the short flight time it has and the short range of the detection system.
For all I know from the video, it was a civilian Ukrainian trying out a homemade IED on a personally owned drone. Itâs also edited between takeoff and landing, so we have no idea how long it was airborne or what happened during that time.
> [@DesertDog](#):
>
> Iâm skeptical on this one.
Me too. Why is the running guy unarmed? Why does, yet again, the drone footage cut off before the supposed destruction of his position? The follow up pictures are useless as 2 of them donât appear to be the same area and the one that looks similar seems to have been taken at a different time then the drone footage.
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> The first casualty of war is truth, and everyone seems to be taking basically ANY video of the Ukraine war and just buying the explanation or the title of the video. Almost every video Iâve seen is short and obviously heavily edited, and often in absurdly dishonest manner.
I agree with all you wrote here. If we took every video at face value or, god forbid, believed the titles, Ukraine would have already blown up every Russian military vehicle produced between WWII and the year 2030. While I wish it was true, there is no way itâs possible.
Itâs weird to see people go on and on about Russian propaganda but fail to realize Ukraine and Ukrainians might have reasons to do it also. And Ukraine has provably outclassed the Russians in the propaganda wars. Thatâs a good thing. Itâs not necessary to believe Ukraine 100% of the time in what they say to be a strong supporter of their cause.
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2022, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4263 "2022-04-08T08:13:18Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> And Ukraine has provably outclassed the Russians in the propaganda wars.
Well, a lot of these are Western websites running with the whole plucky underdog story. âONE MAN WITH A SLINGSHOT AND A SLIDE WHISTLE DESTROYS ENTIRE RUSSIA BRIGADEâ is your basic clickbait. Itâs not always Ukraine itself doing it.
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