# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 218
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4404 "2022-04-11T21:56:21Z")
Sadly, even if it’s 100% proven that Russia used sarin or whatever, it’s a safe bet that NATO/US will just say stern words, maybe impose a few new sanctions and then try to move on.
---
### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4405 "2022-04-11T22:15:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> I mean, _shit_ , I was hoping 2022 would be a better year but it’s starting to stink worse than the two before it.
There is apparently an old Russian saying, “_On average, we are doing ok – not nearly as well as last year but much better than next year._”
---
### Author:  [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2022, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4406 "2022-04-11T22:39:14Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> And I want a pony. The only way Russia ever disarms is if all their nukes have been fired at us.
Then the west doesn’t need to be trading with them. Russia is the moral equivalent of the Third Reich at this point and every penny we send their way serves to feed their war machine.
---
### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2022, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4407 "2022-04-11T22:46:41Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> Evil cackling Russian karting racer [makes Nazi salute](https://twitter.com/FreelFreel/status/1513266489410867204) on podium and gets his contract terminated.
If only he had been cackling evilly. That’d be better. Instead he was doing a cutesy, youthful laugh like, “Look at my carefree, wacky, Nazi salute! Ah life is a fun-fair!!”
---
### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2022, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4408 "2022-04-11T22:55:39Z")
The only source about CW use is Azov Regiment. So it’s best not to repeat this as fact just yet. We’re missing critical details, and it will take weeks if not months to sort this out.
It may very well have actually happened. A useful strategy for Russia would be to get this story out in drips and drops (no pun intended), and simultaneously push the narratives that (A) Russia didn’t use CW, and (B) Russia may have used CW and NATO isn’t doing anything about it.
It’s win/win for Russia. Either they get NATO directly involved, which benefits them, or they prove that NATO can’t respond to red-line provocations.
---
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2022, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4409 "2022-04-11T22:55:53Z")
I’ll just say, the world’s definition of “denazification” has sure changed a lot over the last 2 months.
---
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2022, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4410 "2022-04-11T22:56:50Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#):
>
> Either they get NATO directly involved, which benefits them
Whatever “benefit” Russia gets from NATO direct intervention is vastly dwarfed by the smacking NATO would/could deliver against their forces in Ukraine.
---
### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [April 11, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4411 "2022-04-11T23:07:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> Whatever “benefit” Russia gets from NATO direct intervention is vastly dwarfed by the smacking NATO would/could deliver against their forces in Ukraine.
NATO _could_ do stuff, but won’t. It knows that this opens the door to Russia escalating to so-called “tactical” nukes. NATO countries don’t have the political will to risk nuclear retaliation, so NATO stands down and is revealed as a paper tiger.
It’s high time we started taking Russia literally in terms of their words and actions. If you look at Russia’s Zapad annual military exercises, they usually end with a simulated nuclear strike on the EIS missile defense installation in Poland. (Note that “Zapad”, the word for “west”, seems to be echoed in the “Z” icon chosen by Russia to represent this war). The Zapad exercises are widely understood to have been the practice runs for the Ukraine invasion.
Russia has calculated that its attempt to reconstitute the former USSR may need to culminate in a nuclear strike on EIS (or a comparable asset, since the EIS deployment plan has changed in recent years). The more they lose, the more attractive this trump card appears, and the more they may risk to realize this chain of events.
---
### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2022, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4412 "2022-04-12T00:27:20Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#):
>
> It may very well have actually happened. A useful strategy for Russia would be to get this story out in drips and drops (no pun intended), and simultaneously push the narratives that (A) Russia didn’t use CW, and (B) Russia may have used CW and NATO isn’t doing anything about it.
>
> It’s win/win for Russia. Either they get NATO directly involved, which benefits them, or they prove that NATO can’t respond to red-line provocations.
I think europe needs to step up … IF you choose to use chemical warfare, all energy imports will be cancelled within 24 hrs. …
I believe there is political will in the populace to rip the bandaid off fast and once and forever, instead of having to rely on Hitler V2.0 for years to come … even if it means to make sacrifices for a couple of months.
Losing THAT money should hit the russians hard and really have them tread water
---
### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2022, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4413 "2022-04-12T02:19:52Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#):
>
> The only source about CW use is Azov Regiment. So it’s best not to repeat this as fact just yet. We’re missing critical details, and it will take weeks if not months to sort this out.
Yes, it hasn’t been independently verified, and that is something that will probably not be easy to do given the lack of access to Mariupol.
Here’s what the ISW say in today’s campaign assessment (a General Dvornikov special):
> [@](#):
>
> Ukrainian defenders in Mariupol claimed late on April 11 that Russian forces used drone-delivered chemical weapons against Ukrainian troops in Mariupol on April 11. Victims reported shortness of breath and ataxia. ISW cannot independently confirm these reports. However, DNR Defense Spokesperson Eduard Basurin said Russian forces would likely use unspecified chemical weapons against Ukrainian forces in Mariupol earlier on April 11. Basurin said Russian forces should use “chemical troops” against Ukrainian defenders of the Azovstal Steel Plant to “smoke moles out of their burrows” due to the difficulty of storming the facility. Kremlin media outlets amplified Brasurin’s claim prior to the Ukrainian claim of a chemical attack. ISW will continue to monitor the situation.
> **[Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-11)**
>
> Special Edition: Army General Aleksandr Vladimirovich Dvornikov
> US intelligence reported over the weekend of April 9-10 that Russian Army General Aleksandr Vladimirovich Dvornikov, commander of the Southern Military District, is now in overall...
tl;dr on Dvornikov:
> [@](#):
>
> Russian Commander of the Southern Military District Army General Alexander Dvornikov is the natural choice to take overall command of Russian operations in Ukraine. There is no reason to suppose Dvornikov was selected for any particular skills or experience, nor is there reason to think the conduct of the Russian war effort will materially change more than it was already changing due to the Russian abandonment of northeastern Ukraine and focus on the east.
---
### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2022, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4414 "2022-04-12T10:13:41Z")
> [@Al128](#):
>
> I believe there is political will in the populace to rip the bandaid off fast and once and forever, instead of having to rely on Hitler V2.0 for years to come … even if it means to make sacrifices for a couple of months.
If there was political will to do this, then it would have already been done.
---
### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2022, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4415 "2022-04-12T10:57:04Z")
A foreign fighter is going to be a prize for Russiaan propaganda. I’m surprised we haven’t seen other captured foreign fighters in the news.
Guardian Blog (long article. Shortened for post)
> [@](#):
>
> **A British man fighting in [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) has said his unit has no choice but to surrender to Russian forces in the besieged city of Mariupol, his family and friends told the BBC.**
>
> Aiden Aslin, from Newark, Nottinghamshire, is a marine in the Ukrainian military after moving to Ukraine in 2018. Over the past few weeks, his unit has been defending the southern port city of Mariupol which has come under heavy bombardment by Russian forces.
>
> His mother, Ang Wood, told the BBC:
>
> (_Snip_)
> Russia has previously threatened to bring criminal prosecution against any foreigners who travel to Ukraine to fight.
>
> Russian defence ministry spokesperson, Igor Konashenkov, said “none of the mercenaries the West is sending to Ukraine to fight” would be considered “combatants in accordance with international humanitarian law or enjoy the status of prisoners of war”.
---
### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2022, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4416 "2022-04-12T11:29:42Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#):
>
> If there was political will to do this, then it would have already been done.
I disagree
in (international) politics it is always important to have one more card up your sleeve to de-incentivate any escalations.
If you are at the top rung of the ladder too early, you have no more space to go…
e.g. good example for this is todays brit’s “there are all options on the table” if you (the .ru) go chemical … but for that to work you need to have more severe options.
you do’t want to outrun your options too early, but you don’t want to be too lenient neither … tricky terrain, for sure
---
### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2022, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4417 "2022-04-12T12:38:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#):
>
> Then the west doesn’t need to be trading with them. Russia is the moral equivalent of the Third Reich at this point and every penny we send their way serves to feed their war machine.
Oh, I have no problem with that at all.
---
### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2022, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4418 "2022-04-12T13:02:13Z")
> [@eschereal](#):
>
> There is apparently an old Russian saying, “ _On average, we are doing ok – not nearly as well as last year but much better than next year._ ”
In Canada, we say we’ve got our feet in a snowbank and our heads in the oven, so on average, we’re room temperature.
---
### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4419 "2022-04-12T15:49:26Z")
May be fake, but if not I WANT SOME!!
>
---
### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2022, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4420 "2022-04-12T15:52:22Z")
NPR seems to be backing up that this is real.
> **[A new stamp honors the Ukrainian soldiers who profanely told off a Russian...](https://www.npr.org/2022/03/13/1086371078/ukraine-russian-warship-postage-stamp)**
>
> Ukraine introduced the design for a postage stamp that memorializes a now-famous battle cry rallying the country in its fight against the Russian invasion.
Also fact checked here: {sorry for terrible USA Today format}
> **[Fact check: Ukrainian stamp honoring Snake Island soldiers' response to...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/03/14/fact-check-snake-island-soldiers-featured-new-ukrainian-stamp/7034999001/)**
>
> The stamp design won a social media contest organized by Ukraine's postal service.
**The stamp is not yet for sale though.**
---
### Author:  [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4421 "2022-04-12T15:59:58Z")
OK, I totally love the Ukrainian attitude.
---
### Author:  [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4422 "2022-04-12T16:45:01Z")
Just the flight tracker checking in. Usual stuff in Poland and Romania with Tankers flying circular patterns and the E-3 Sentry aircraft, but I noticed an E-3 and a RAF tanker doing loops around Estonia and Latvia today. Now it may be a common occurrence I haven’t picked up on, but has anybody heard of movements or a buildup of tension in the Baltics of late? Could prove to be a distraction for NATO if the Russian bear growls (even if it’s a bluff) at actual NATO members…
---
### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 12, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4423 "2022-04-12T16:54:36Z")
My Estonian acquaintance has been telling me that tension has been rising in the Baltics since the invasion began, which isn’t a puzzling development, really. Between the war and the rhetoric coming out of Russia I’d be surprised if things _weren’t_ getting tense there.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=217)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=219)