### Author:  [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4505 "2022-04-14T00:16:02Z")
[Flagship of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet](https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/ukraine-claims-to-have-struck-the-flagship-of-russia-s-black-sea-fleet)
> [@](#):
>
> Russian state media outlet RIA Novosti [confirms](https://ria.ru/20220414/kreyser-1783435471.html) an explosion aboard the Moskva resulting in “serious damage,” but asserts that the cause was a shipboard fire and the detonation of ammunition, not a missile strike.
I hope this is true. It would mean major Russian weapons platforms don’t even need to be attacked — wait a bit and they self-destruct.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4506 "2022-04-14T00:19:05Z")
[ ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQQ1qLRXwAMCHlD?format=jpg&name=large)
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4507 "2022-04-14T00:22:21Z")
So to the Russian mindset, admitting to incompetence is better than acknowledging Ukrainian competence?
Do I have that right?
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### Author:  [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4508 "2022-04-14T00:24:11Z")
So, the Ukrainians will need a new stamp showing the soldier giving the one-finger salute to a bow and stern sinking into the water, right??
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4509 "2022-04-14T00:31:42Z")
>
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4510 "2022-04-14T01:09:37Z")
Is the Moskva the most significant warship lost in war since WWII?
The only similar ship I can think of is the Argentine light cruiser ARA General Belgrano, first commissioned by the U.S. as USS Phoenix, which was sunk in the Falklands War of 1982.
**ARA General Belgrano**
Displacement: 9,575 tons (empty) 12,242 (full load)
Length: 185.4 m (608.3 ft)
Complement: 1,138 officers and men
**Russian cruiser Moskva**
Displacement: 12,490 tons
Length: 186.4 m (611.5 ft)
Complement: 480
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4511 "2022-04-14T01:18:10Z")
While my heart sings for Ukraine, as a Navy veteran who has experienced at sea emergencies, I can’t help but empathize with the utter terror those sailors must have felt. Some of them likely lived even as their ship sank, possibly even surviving minutes or more in air pockets throughout the ship. Just an utterly terrifying way to die.
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### Author:  [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4512 "2022-04-14T01:27:45Z")
Yes, warships are dangerous places to work, even in peacetime. There are innumerable ways to eff up and die and/or kill your shipmates.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4513 "2022-04-14T01:28:33Z")
I’ve seen unsubstantiated reports that the crew evacuated because of the threat of ammunition detonation, so there may not necessarily have been loss of life.
That video of the ship cook discovered in an air pocket in a shipwreck after three days is incredible!
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### Author:  [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4514 "2022-04-14T01:33:00Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> That video of the ship cook discovered in an air pocket in a shipwreck after three days is incredible!
Are you talking about this guy? 😜
> **[Under Siege (1992) ⭐ 6.5 | Action, Thriller](https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0105690/)**
>
> 1h 43m | R
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4515 "2022-04-14T01:42:39Z")
> **[No, Steven Seagal is not fighting with Russian special forces in Ukraine](https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2022/02/28/is-steven-seagal-fighting-with-russian-special-forces-in-ukraine/)**
>
> He is not there to karate chop Kyiv.
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### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4516 "2022-04-14T01:44:06Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> ETA: This will make things interesting. How reliable is ExpressCoUk?
No where in that article does it say Putin declared war on the US. Horrible click bait headline.
* * *
Also— didnt the Russians say hours ago that that ship was evacuated? So why would someone speculate on a large death toll?
Has anyone confirmed it has sank? If not, it hasn’t sank.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4517 "2022-04-14T02:20:16Z")
Word of the sinking of the ship seems to be stemming from Russian social media: that a Bayraktar drone was used as a decoy to distract the ship’s anti-air capabilities, while Neptune missiles struck the port side of the ship; this caused the ship to roll, the crew evacuated and the ship sank in the rough weather conditions. That’s the rumor.
If the ship was either on fire or listing to such a level that the crew evacuated, then it doesn’t sound very salvageable to me, particularly in the rough weather, but I’m not a man of the sea.
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### Author:  [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4518 "2022-04-14T02:21:56Z")
Russian social media? Not Ukrainian?
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4519 "2022-04-14T02:36:53Z")
Yes, Russian.
>
The Russian source says (translated by Google):
> [@](#):
>
> According to unconfirmed data, the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet cruiser “Moscow” - sank.
>
> The statement of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, which appeared at 2 o’clock in the morning, states that as a result of the fire there was a partial detonation of ammunition, and part of the crew was evacuated.
>
> According to information from Ukraine, which appeared long before the statement of the Russian Defense Ministry, the cruiser “Moscow” was destroyed by the RCC “Neptune”.
>
> According to our preliminary information, the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, the cruiser Moscow, was indeed attacked by the Neptune RCC from the coastline between Odessa and Nikolaev. The ship’s forces were also diverted to counter the Bayraktar TB-2 UAV. The blow hit the port side, as a result of which the ship took a strong roll. After the threat of detonation of ammunition, the crew of about ~ 500 people was evacuated. The buoyancy of the cruiser was complicated by marine weather conditions. As a result of all the combined factors, according to preliminary information, and unfortunately, the cruiser joined the underwater satellite group “Roskomos”.
Roskosmos is Russia’s space program agency.
---
### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4520 "2022-04-14T02:46:12Z")
Who draws the short straw and gets to tell Vlady?
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4521 "2022-04-14T02:52:48Z")
There will be a Russian response. Maybe missle strikes against Kyiv?
Russia has already destroyed so much in Ukraine. A ship that’s shelling the coastline is certainly a legitimate target.
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4522 "2022-04-14T03:11:51Z")
IIUC, the Russian fleet that is in the Black Sea is pretty much alone there now, right? I heard that Turkey has closed the straits, so there should be no more Russian ships coming in from the north. Granted, Russia has coastline and ports east of Ukraine, as well as Crimea more or less, so the ships already there should have access to resupply.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4523 "2022-04-14T03:15:07Z")
Yes, the Bosporus is now closed to military vessels due to the [Montreux Convention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits). Under the rules, ships are only allowed to enter the Black Sea from the Mediterranean if they are returning to their home base, and I’m not sure if Russia has ships left that qualify. In February, Turkey denied three of four Russian warships entrance to the Black Sea, as three did not have home bases there. So Russia may not be able to bring any warships from elsewhere to the conflict for the course of the war.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4524 "2022-04-14T03:19:11Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> There will be a Russian response. Maybe missle strikes against Kyiv?
Well, that wouldn’t be new. You’d hardly notice more efforts to kill civilians.
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