### Author:  [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4585 "2022-04-14T20:17:51Z")
Well, here in the Midwest microbursts are a known cause of severe damage in a small area . . .
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### Author:  [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4586 "2022-04-14T20:21:03Z")
The Russians say it lost stability. I suppose she might have turned turtle.
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4587 "2022-04-14T20:21:51Z")
that is huge …
from an “emotional POV” losing a ship is so much more difficult to swallow as to towing in a beat up boat to patch it up …
huge win for Ukr. here
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4588 "2022-04-14T20:23:23Z")
Confirming the story from another angle
>
Vot a tveest
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4589 "2022-04-14T20:41:10Z")
This is a pretty big loss, practically and prestige-wise.
It was the largest and most capable Russian vessel operating in that theater, as well as the flagship. I doubt the frigates and patrol boats remaining in that flotilla have proper flag facilities and command and control capabilities to oversee operations.
Also, the Russians just lost one of their three heavy guided missile cruisers. In comparison, the US Navy has 22 active _Ticonderoga_ class guided missile cruisers.
The only other _Slava_ class ship that even exists, other than the two active in other seas, is the _Ukraina_, and it technically belongs to the Ukrainians. But it’s a moldering incomplete hulk in the Mykolayiv shipyard.
> **[Ukrainian cruiser Ukraina](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_cruiser_Ukraina)**
>
> Pages for logged out editors learn more
>
> Coordinates: .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}46°58′31″N 32°00′13″E / 46.975271°N 32.003618°E / 46.975271; 32.003618
>
> Ukraina is a Ukrainian Slava-class cruiser originally ordered by the Soviet Union in the early 1980s un...
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### Author:  [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4590 "2022-04-14T20:48:22Z")
When was the last time a ship bigger than this was sunk in a war?
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4591 "2022-04-14T20:51:20Z")
Yamato, 7 April 1945?
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4592 "2022-04-14T20:54:08Z")
Looks like the sinking via submarine torpedo of the Argentinian _ARA General Belgrano_ in 1982 during the Falklands War.
> **[ARA General Belgrano | Sinking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano#Sinking)**
>
> On 12 April 1982, following the 1982 invasion of the Falkland Islands, Britain declared a 200-nautical-mile (370 km) Maritime Exclusion Zone (MEZ) around the Falkland Islands within which any Argentine warship or naval auxiliary entering the MEZ might be attacked by British nuclear-powered submarines (SSN). On 23 April, the British Government clarified in a message that was passed via the Swiss Embassy in Buenos Aires to the Argentine government that any Argentine ship or aircraft that was con On...
_General Belgrano_ was about the same size class as _Moskva_, maybe a little heavier all-up.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4593 "2022-04-14T20:55:47Z")
_Moskva_ is bigger than the _Belgrano_.
Just as an aside: The above mention of _Yamato_ triggered a memory and trivia question - “What was the last Japanese ship sunk by a US submarine?”
[Ehime Maru and USS Greeneville collision - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehime_Maru_and_USS_Greeneville_collision)
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### Author:  [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4594 "2022-04-14T20:57:30Z")
Interesting fact: The Belgrano used to be the USS Phoenix and is a survivor of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4595 "2022-04-14T20:57:30Z")
See [Post #4510](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine/960037/4510).
The Belgrano and Moskva are similar in displacement and length, although the former had a larger crew.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4596 "2022-04-14T20:58:58Z")
By such a small margin that it’d depend on what they were carrying.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4597 "2022-04-14T21:00:28Z")
“As big as” is not “bigger.” 😛
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4598 "2022-04-14T21:01:52Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> I doubt the frigates and patrol boats remaining in that flotilla have proper flag facilities and command and control capabilities to oversee operations.
For a theater that small, wouldn’t / couldn’t those facilities be located ashore? And it’s not like they are engaging another navy on the open sea; the Black Sea Fleet is essentially a floating artillery battery.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4599 "2022-04-14T21:07:18Z")
That’s the answer you get unless you want to fish around World War II warship casualty lists for heavy cruiser, battleship, or fleet carrier losses.
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### Author:  [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4600 "2022-04-14T21:11:13Z")
WWII then - that’s good enough. Sorry for the hijack.
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### Author:  [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4601 "2022-04-14T22:08:32Z")
Apparently the [USS Card](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Card) was a similar size. It was bombed while in port in 1964, sunk, then was pumped out, refloated, and returned to service. Wiki lists it as having a smaller displacement when empty, but a higher displacement when fully loaded.
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### Author:  [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4602 "2022-04-14T22:13:23Z")
General Belgrano in the Falklands war. Also the Atlantic Conveyor same war. GB was former USS Phoenix 12,200 tons.
Atlantic Conveyor 14,950 roll-on roll-off ship.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4603 "2022-04-14T22:14:26Z")
I would love to see Biden publicly announce in a speech, “Putin doesn’t have the **GUTS** to push the nuclear button, his tiny fingers twitch with rage and helplessness, hovering right above the big red button, but not having the balls to actually push it…coward, coward…6,000 nukes but too wimp to launch a single one”…
…(As you can see, I probably would not make a good president.)
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### Author:  [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)
#### Post date: [April 14, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4604 "2022-04-14T22:15:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> I would love to see Biden publicly announce in a speech, “Putin doesn’t have the **GUTS** to push the nuclear button, his tiny fingers twitch with rage and helplessness, hovering right above the big red button, but not having the balls to actually push it…coward, coward…6,000 nukes but too wimp to launch a single one”…
Don’t forget to mention how short he is.
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