### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2022, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4645 "2022-04-15T15:40:02Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#):
>
> > LONDON, April 15 (Reuters) - Russia has warned the United States that there will be “unpredictable consequences” if Washington keeps arming Ukraine, The Washington Post reported on Friday.
Unpredictable consequences…for Russia?
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### Author:  [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4646 "2022-04-15T16:43:38Z")
How about we keep helping Ukraine and experience the completely predictable outcome?
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### Author:  [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4647 "2022-04-15T17:42:29Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#):
>
> Again: I’m glad this one isn’t on my desk to manage.
Meh. From the NYT live blog:
> Officials said the note did not prompt any special concern inside the White House. But it has touched off a broader discussion inside the Pentagon and intelligence agencies about whether the “unpredictable consequences” could include trying to target or sabotage some of the weapons shipments while they are still in NATO territory, before they are handed off to Ukrainians for the final leg of their journey into the hands of Ukrainian troops.
Probably a good idea to keep an eye out for Russian sympathizers in those areas who might try to pull something.
Also note: that little nastygram from Russia wasn’t signed by anyone!
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4648 "2022-04-15T17:43:16Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#):
>
> But what doesn’t seem to have been known was the level of preparedness of the Ukraine military.
Why would Ukraine or any western intelligence service make such an assessment public? The only value would be as deterrence, and I doubt Russia believes anything that their enemies make public.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4649 "2022-04-15T17:50:54Z")
> [@Cardigan](#):
>
> If the ship caught on fire as a result of some error or mishap as the Kremlin’s narrative suggests, why would they now be moving all their other vessels farther away from Ukrainian shore-based anti-ship missile batteries?
They need to be spaced farther apart to avoid spreading fires.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4650 "2022-04-15T18:10:54Z")
The Pentagon now confirms that Ukrainian anti-ship missiles destroyed the Moskva.
>
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2022, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4651 "2022-04-15T21:48:39Z")
Ukraine sunk the ship and the sailors went home safe. This is the opposite of Putin’s war of civilian atrocities. He needs to read up on the last chapters of Hitler and Mussolini. His own people will take him down.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2022, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4652 "2022-04-15T22:00:47Z")
So far, there’s not a lot of evidence that more than a few dozen sailors were rescued. It’s possible that more were saved and Russia is just being secretive. But conditions were stormy, and an ammo explosion is no small thing to live through… so the odds that most of the crew were rescued seem slim.
Of course, that’s not on Ukraine at all.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2022, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4653 "2022-04-15T22:14:30Z")
Ukrainian sources claim the captain of the Moskva perished with his ship.
> **[Captain of sunk Russian warship ‘killed in explosion’, says Ukraine](https://news.yahoo.com/captain-sunk-russian-warship-moskva-100437596.html)**
>
> The captain of the Moskva warship was killed during an explosion and subsequent fire on board, according to Ukrainian reports.
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### Author:  [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2022, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4654 "2022-04-15T22:26:52Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#):
>
> which implies unpredictable consequences for regional and international security,
Meaning, “We don’t know if we’ll win or not if you keep giving the Ukrainians weapons.”
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### Author:  [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2022, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4655 "2022-04-15T22:28:21Z")
That would be Ukrainian hryvnias, the national currency. But I’m not about to provide my credit card information to a non-secure website with a Ukrainian domain extension. I’ve used the official Ukrposhta website before with no problems (I happened to buy a gift for my husband from a Ukrainian Etsy artist a few months ago, and the tracking function worked fine). I can wait until the official site is functioning properly.
UPDATE: it looks like this is the official Ukrposhta online store, which is now functioning sporadically. All the same, I am not crazy about using a non-secure website under the circumstances.
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2022, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4656 "2022-04-15T22:35:38Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#):
>
> But conditions were stormy, and an ammo explosion is no small thing to live through… so the odds that most of the crew were rescued seem slim.
If they had time to take the ship in tow, it is unlikely any sailors were still aboard when it sank. In other words, the fatalities would be from the explosion and fire; not the sinking.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2022, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4657 "2022-04-15T22:49:22Z")
Not so sure about that. If the ship had rolled onto its side due to flooded compartments, there must have been areas of the ship that were blocked off, with the crew unable to escape. Maybe they could have been rescued with scuba divers and other equipment–but not during a storm, and not that quickly.
Even among those that escaped the ship, many could have drowned due to not making it to a lifeboat, the lifeboat capsizing, etc.
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### Author:  [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4658 "2022-04-16T00:10:50Z")
I’m watching ABC evening news right now, and they say the captain and 400 sailors are missing. I sure hope Putin is beginning to regret starting this thing.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4659 "2022-04-16T02:44:15Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#):
>
> Not so sure about that. If the ship had rolled onto its side due to flooded compartments, there must have been areas of the ship that were blocked off
If it rolled they wouldn’t have been able to tow it. There were certainly drones in the vicinity recording the whole thing. We’ll see it someday.
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### Author:  [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4660 "2022-04-16T02:53:41Z")
Capsized ships get towed all the time. Sure, you’ve got a high risk of the thing flooding and sinking… but there you go.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4661 "2022-04-16T02:57:38Z")
In that sort of situation, how does the towing ship stay safe? If the ship being towed goes down suddenly, couldn’t that pull the towing ship down with it?
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4662 "2022-04-16T03:05:48Z")
Quick release towing hook:
[ ](https://cag-mak.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/quick-release-hook-1.jpg)
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### Author:  [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4663 "2022-04-16T04:27:47Z")
> [@Pleonast](#):
>
> I’m skeptical about any public reports.
Yeah, that’s the safe bet.
A couple of weeks ago, I watched a round table presentation held at West Point, and one of the participants had spend considerable time as part of the US efforts at training the Ukrainian army. He said that he wasn’t surprised at their performance.
Of course, the intelligence agencies would have to be aware of those reports.
I wonder if the greatest surprise is the Russian air force being MIA. They have the raw numbers but without the ability to degrade the Ukrainian AA capabilities, it makes the ground battle that much more difficult.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4664 "2022-04-16T06:20:23Z")
Low-resolution radar satellite image of the stricken Moskva, with other vessels around it. It’s around 93 km (58 mi) from the Ukrainian coast and 55 km (34 mi) from Snake Island.
[ ](https://www.navalnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Russia-Moskva-Cruiser-Sinking-Location.jpg)
> **[Satellite Image Pinpoints Russian Cruiser Moskva As She Burned - Naval News](https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news/2022/04/satellite-image-pinpoints-russian-cruiser-moskva-as-she-burned/#prettyPhoto)**
>
> Analysis of radar satellite imagery has revealed the location of the Moskva soon after she was reportedly hit by 2 missiles. The Russian Navy cruiser was the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet and is a symbolic as well as naval loss for Russia.
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