# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 231
### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4665 "2022-04-16T07:00:28Z")
Jesus, I’m expecting Google satellite resolution at the very least. It’s not like Google Maps is some kind of resolution trade secret News outlets should be able to purchase better images for almost nothing.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4666 "2022-04-16T07:00:54Z")
Here’s a bathymetry (depth) map of the Black Sea:
[ ](https://i.imgur.com/Q8ZzrTj.png)
If the Moskva sank where she was located in the radar satellite image, then she may lie in a depth of only around 50 m (160 ft). The length of the ship is 186 m (611 ft). The industry standard depth limit for recreational divers is 39 m (130 ft).
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4667 "2022-04-16T07:04:19Z")
James Cameron, there’s a call for you at the courtesy desk. James Cameron, call for you at the courtesy desk.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4668 "2022-04-16T07:06:14Z")
I wonder whether any better satellite images will appear. It was night and overcast.
I also wonder whether we will hear anything from the “Turkish vessel” that supposedly “picked up some of the survivors”.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4669 "2022-04-16T07:19:51Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#):
>
> A couple of weeks ago, I watched a round table presentation held at West Point, and one of the participants had spend considerable time as part of the US efforts at training the Ukrainian army. He said that he wasn’t surprised at their performance.
Wait - are you saying that the U.S. military trained a foreign army, and actually managed to make them better? I didn’t think that was possible.
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### Author:  [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4670 "2022-04-16T09:14:17Z")
The latest military aid package is supposed to include 10 unmanned drone boats armed with hellfire missiles and .50 cal mg. These appear to be intended to combat much smaller vessels than missile cruisers. Aren’t hellfire missiles antitank missiles with only a few kilometers range? What sort of damage could they do to a large-ish vessel?
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### Author:  [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4671 "2022-04-16T10:03:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Jesus, I’m expecting Google satellite resolution at the very least. It’s not like Google Maps is some kind of resolution trade secret News outlets should be able to purchase better images for almost nothing.
Google “satellite” maps, at least the kind you’re thinking of, are aerial photos taken during the daytime under clear, cloudless skies. That we are able to get satellite imagery at all, at night under stormy conditions, is nothing short of a miracle.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4672 "2022-04-16T10:17:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Jesus, I’m expecting Google satellite resolution at the very least. It’s not like Google Maps is some kind of resolution trade secret News outlets should be able to purchase better images for almost nothing.
Depends on the weather - if there was cloud cover at the time then something like the Google satellite source wouldn’t be useful because it can’t see through clouds. l’m no expert on these things, but it might be that the fuzzy picture we see here is because some imaging system was used that can penetrate cloud cover and that doesn’t give us as clear an image as something based on visible light.
Or something else, just throwing that out there.
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### Author:  [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4673 "2022-04-16T13:37:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> Wait - are you saying that the U.S. military trained a foreign army, and actually managed to make them better? I didn’t think that was possible.
Ha! Yeah, this is the point that policymakers overlook. It’s possible to train existing, motivated armies, but the problem is when you try with the bored, apathetic revolving conscripts under a corrupt warlord you have called a president.
As I teacher, I constantly tell parents, it’s not the teacher, it’s the student.
> [@Cardigan](#):
>
> Aren’t hellfire missiles antitank missiles with only a few kilometers range? What sort of damage could they do to a large-ish vessel?
They wouldn’t. It would be against landing craft. This is a huge problem any potential invasion of Taiwan would face and one of the planned defenses.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4674 "2022-04-16T13:44:58Z")
I looked up the [Hellfire on Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-114_Hellfire), and it says the AGM-114R Hellfire II (Hellfire Romeo) that has been in production since 2012, as well as earlier models, have a range of 8,000 m (just under 5 miles).
Interestingly, there is a Hellfire designed to take out individual people:
> AGM-114R9X
>
> The Hellfire R9X is a Hellfire variant with a [kinetic warhead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projectile#Kinetic_projectiles) with pop-out blades instead of explosives, used against specific human targets; its lethality is due to 45 kg (100 lb) of dense material with six blades flying at high speed, to crush and slice the targeted person[[42]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-114_Hellfire#cite_note-beaumont-42)—it has been called the Ninja bomb and the Flying [Ginsu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ginsu).
Not relevant to naval warfare, but still interesting.
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4675 "2022-04-16T13:51:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> James Cameron, there’s a call for you at the courtesy desk. James Cameron, call for you at the courtesy desk.
Or Robert Ballard – has he retired?
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Jesus, I’m expecting Google satellite resolution at the very least. It’s not like Google Maps is some kind of resolution trade secret News outlets should be able to purchase better images for almost nothing.
When I was living in Maine, circa 1977, the state completed a museum in Bangor that included a three-story atrium in the lobby. They thought it would be cool to have a giant satellite image of the state there but this was way before anything like that was readily available. They approached NASA who said they hadn’t anything like that available, ask NOAA. NOAA said the same thing, ask the Pentagon. The Pentagon said they declined to sell anything because it might disclose their capabilities.
So they went to the Soviet embassy. “Sure! How big do you want it?”
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### Author:  [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4676 "2022-04-16T13:57:37Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> the AGM-114R Hellfire II (Hellfire Romeo) that has been in production since 2012, as well as earlier models, have a range of 8,000 m (just under 5 miles).
The beauty of the Hellfire is that it can be operated by small teams which are difficult to detect and neutralize.
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### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4677 "2022-04-16T14:08:58Z")
> [@Alessan](#):
>
> Wait - are you saying that the U.S. military trained a foreign army, and actually managed to make them better? I didn’t think that was possible.
Here’s an article from about a month ago, detailing the training efforts over the several years preceding.
> **[Exclusive: Secret CIA training program in Ukraine helped Kyiv prepare for...](https://news.yahoo.com/exclusive-secret-cia-training-program-in-ukraine-helped-kyiv-prepare-for-russian-invasion-090052743.html)**
>
> As the battle lines hardened in the Donbas following Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014, a small, select group of veteran CIA paramilitaries made their first secret trips to the frontlines to meet with Ukrainian counterparts there, according to...
Short version: these guys were extremely motivated, and the American trainers were very impressed.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4678 "2022-04-16T14:20:18Z")
> **[A Russian soldier says Putin's troops have been blowing up their own 'as if...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-soldier-says-putins-troops-132136294.html)**
>
> The soldier in a call said Russian troops are bombing Klimovo. Town authorities initially placed the blame on Ukraine, a claim that Kyiv has denied.
> The Security Service of Ukraine released an [audio clip](https://www.facebook.com/SecurSerUkraine/videos/716645083019984/) of the call on Friday, in which a man’s voice can be heard saying Putin’s forces have been opening fire on a Russian town. The man, a soldier located in Ukraine’s Donetsk region, was speaking to his wife on the phone, who’s back home in Russia.
>
> “These are our heroes,” he told his wife.
>
> “This is done in order to provoke … Ukrainians,” he said, according to Ukrainian intel.
>
> The soldier said Russian forces bombed Klimovo, a Russian city straddling the border between Russia and Ukraine. Klimovo authorities, meanwhile, blamed Ukrainian soldiers for shelling the city, an accusation Kyiv has vehemently denied. The National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine characterized the blame as “an attempt to ignite anti-Ukraine hysteria in Russia,” according to [Radio Free Europe](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-ukraine-accuses-shelling-bryansk/31803487.html), a US-funded media company.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4679 "2022-04-16T14:41:07Z")
I’m watching the Frontline documentary on Putin. I had no idea how badly he screwed over his own people since taking power. It’s basically the Soviet Union all over again in every detail.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4680 "2022-04-16T14:52:36Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> Depends on the weather - if there was cloud cover at the time then something like the Google satellite source wouldn’t be useful because it can’t see through clouds
I should have been clearer. I would expect Google satellite level resolution of images. Not specifically from Google or specifically from a satellite. This is the age of drones and motion stabilized camera systems.
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4681 "2022-04-16T15:43:35Z")
edit
safety procedure Q on towing: answered above
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### Author:  [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4682 "2022-04-16T16:00:56Z")
Interesting thread on the sinking of the Moskva.
>
>
> Nataliya Vasilyeva @Nat\_Vasilyeva
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### Author:  [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4683 "2022-04-16T17:43:28Z")
Russian admiral for the “special operation” in charge of the Black Sea Fleet has been arrested by the FSB (nee-KGB, Putin old stomping ground). Not confirmed by mainstream sources yet. I’d avoid windows if I were him, of course the ones he’s facing may have bars in them.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4684 "2022-04-16T18:33:45Z")
Just a note that Canadians who subscribe to Telus cell service can donate $10 to support Canadian Red Cross humanitarian efforts in Ukraine by texting UKRAINE to 20222. I just did. More info:
> **[Supporting those impacted by the crisis in Ukraine](https://www.telus.com/en/about/ukraine-support)**
>
> Steps we are taking to support customers, team members and others impacted by the ongoing tragedy in Ukraine and how you can help.
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