### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4688 "2022-04-16T23:04:35Z")
> Ukrainian troops have killed Russian Maj. Gen. Vladimir Frolov, deputy commander of the Eighth Army: Russian state media reports
>
> Frolov would be the 8th Russian General killed in Ukraine in 51 days of war.
>
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### Author:  [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)
#### Post date: [April 16, 2022, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4689 "2022-04-16T23:15:14Z")
If Putin had started this whole mess actively _intending_ to devastate the Russian military, I doubt he’d have been more effective than he’s actually achieving in our reality.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4690 "2022-04-17T01:39:28Z")
> [@DigitalC](#):
>
> Looks like an attempt to gauge public reaction on just bailing completely.
Very possible. It would be a hoot if they had a panel of surviving Generals on the show. “Yah, we sure killed us a bunch of super-nazis”. “Mission accomplished”. “where’s my Ukraine War merit badge”.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4691 "2022-04-17T02:30:07Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> an exclave in the heart of Europe…
And the folks in Kalingrad would like to thank Vlad for painting a big bullseye on them.
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Very possible. It would be a hoot if they had a panel of surviving Generals on the show. “
[If there are any surviving generals.](https://nypost.com/2022/04/16/russian-general-vladimir-frolov-killed-in-ukraine/)
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4692 "2022-04-17T03:15:40Z")
There’s a photo going viral of a Russian tank turret that’s been blown off by an antitank weapon and now resembles a skull.
[ ](https://i.redd.it/efxq2s5k9rt81.jpg)
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4693 "2022-04-17T03:35:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> I’m watching the Frontline documentary on Putin. I had no idea how badly he screwed over his own people since taking power. It’s basically the Soviet Union all over again in every detail.
No surprise. Putin is a KGB man, who’s been quoted as saying the fall of the Soviet Union was the greatest world disaster of the 20th century.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4694 "2022-04-17T04:22:41Z")
Hasbro needs to come out with a Ukrainian edition of Battleship incorporating the voice of Putin saying “you sunk my battleship”
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4695 "2022-04-17T08:02:06Z")
Russia’s brutal tactics are changing minds among supporters in Donbas. It may seem like an obvious result, but people can cling to their beliefs. There still are some pro Russian factions, but they’re much smaller.
Kramatorsk will probably be completely obliterated in the next phase of fighting. Thanfulky most people have already fled. [‘After Bucha, I’m afraid of Russian soldiers’: people in east Ukraine prepare for fresh assault | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/17/after-bucha-im-afraid-of-russian-soldiers-people-in-east-ukraine-prepare-for-fresh-assault)
> [@](#):
>
> “But [pro-Russian views] still exist. There are people who don’t like Ukraine and can’t even explain why. Their explanations are empty of analysis,” said Yukov. “If someone is killed in front of their eyes for no reason, it doesn’t seem to change anything. They want to believe what they already believe and they don’t want to reassess. The propaganda is still getting through, and Ukraine didn’t do enough in these eight years to stop it.”
> But Kramatorsk’s mayor, Oleksandr Goncharenko, said the blockade of Mariupol in the Donetsk region and its disastrous humanitarian consequences had played a decisive role in changing people’s minds.
>
> “If in 2014, 60% of the town were pro-Russian, I would say now it’s around 15%,” he said.
>
> Goncharenko is one of the many Donbas politicians who has represented Ukraine’s pro-Russian parties. Goncharenko said his politics had changed after former Ukrainian president [Viktor Yanukovych](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jan/25/ukraine-ex-president-viktor-yanukovych-found-guilty-of-treason) “betrayed” Ukraine in 2014. He said there would be no “Donetsk people’s republic” in Kramatorsk and that he would take up arms if the city was occupied.
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### Author:  [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4696 "2022-04-17T10:13:22Z")
> [@DigitalC](#):
>
> Looks like an attempt to gauge public reaction on just bailing completely.
why would Putin suddenly start caring about public opnion?
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### Author:  [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4697 "2022-04-17T11:52:23Z")
The Ukrainian government released this infographic earlier with estimates of claimed Russian losses:
[ ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQimQNPWQAcN4-b?format=jpg&name=medium)
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### Author:  [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4698 "2022-04-17T12:17:59Z")
There is just no good information to be had about the sinking of the cruiser. The Russians have showed a short, silent clip of the crew, but as it seems to show the dead captain, it must have been filmed before the sinking.
I am very interested in how many people died in the attack, but I suppose we will just have to wait.
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### Author:  [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4699 "2022-04-17T12:33:18Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#):
>
> The Ukrainian government released this infographic earlier with estimates of claimed Russian losses:
The concerning number from that list is the artillery at 376. That seems like a small number in proportion to the total amount of Russian artillery. That makes me think Russia is still very capable of continuing an offensive for at least several more months.
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4700 "2022-04-17T13:58:37Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> There’s a photo going viral of a Russian tank turret that’s been blown off by an antitank weapon and now resembles a skull.
the peruvians would like their tumi back …
[https://i.postimg.cc/fysm7DQX/image.png](https://i.postimg.cc/fysm7DQX/image.png)
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4701 "2022-04-17T14:03:55Z")
> [@chappachula](#):
>
> why would Putin suddenly start caring about public opnion?
well if pubic opinion starts knocking on your front door …
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### Author:  [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4702 "2022-04-17T14:06:31Z")
you can see trees in summer green in that video … while on all current vid’s you can see ukr. trees being early-spring-bare…
the vid. shows the crew was well and at good health some time last summer …
to get somewhat of a feeling of what might have gone on after the hit …
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo0BNYGgEV4)
(now imagine **additionally** , night, being off-shore, storm and 1000s of kg of explosives going off - which really makes me thinks there have been many going down)
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4703 "2022-04-17T14:21:05Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#):
>
> I am very interested in how many people died in the attack, but I suppose we will just have to wait.
Perhaps forever. Any propaganda value in under- or over-exaggerating aside, war is a chaotic situation and most folks have more pressing concerns than record keeping. A single incident _may_ have a precise answer but the estimates of the dead from WWII is [70 - 85-million](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties) with a range of 4-million for military and 11-million for civilians.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4704 "2022-04-17T14:28:31Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#):
>
> There is just no good information to be had about the sinking of the cruiser. The Russians have showed a short, silent clip of the crew, but as it seems to show the dead captain, it must have been filmed before the sinking.
The video doesn’t show the dead captain.
Since the video was put out by the Russian state, one cannot trust that it is the crew of the Moskva, or whether all the people in it are crew of the Moskva. Either way, it looks like less than a hundred people (out of a crew of 500).
> [@Al128](#):
>
> to get somewhat of a feeling of what might have gone on after the hit …
There is terrible newsreel video of the sinking of HMS Barham in WWII, which shows what happens when a ship’s ammunition explodes.
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