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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4847 "2022-04-21T15:56:34Z")
> [@gnoitall](#):
>
> > [@Broomstick](#):
> >
> > Putin is _really_ hanging onto that table.
>
> My thought was “cameras capture the instant before Vladimir Putin rage-flipped a table and injured Shoigu.”
Or that’s where the trapdoor button is located.
[ ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQ3yNvcVcAAz6uD?format=jpg&name=240x240)
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### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4848 "2022-04-21T15:59:13Z")
Wow, those are _not_ small fires. Sabotage is definitely a possibility.
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4849 "2022-04-21T16:03:52Z")
Both are way too far from Ukraine for direct military action. Could be sabotage, could be coincidence, could be them trying to rush through something military and cutting too many safety corners. Who knows?
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4850 "2022-04-21T16:25:04Z")
> [@Horatius](#):
>
> Wow, those are _not_ small fires. Sabotage is definitely a possibility.
No kidding. They are blaming “aging wiring” for one fire. Sure, sure.
No official news article about the chemical plant fire, but here’s one on the research institute.
> **[6 Dead in Fire at Russian Aerospace Defense Research Institute – State Media...](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/04/21/6-dead-in-fire-at-russian-aerospace-defense-research-institute-state-media-a77446)**
>
> Six people died Thursday when a fire engulfed a Russian military research institute involved in developing air defense systems in the northwestern city of Tver, local officials said.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4851 "2022-04-21T16:27:30Z")
If indeed these recent fires are caused by sabotage, this is a very effective method for Ukraine fighting Russia.
I’m pretty confident that Ukraine has been getting intelligence and logistical assistance from NATO countries. I wonder if there are any special forces involved in these fires, or at least some deep cover folks who have been waiting in the weeds for a chance like this.
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### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4852 "2022-04-21T16:34:13Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> I wonder if there are any special forces involved in these fires, or at least some deep cover folks who have been waiting in the weeds for a chance like this.
A more interesting question is, was it sabotaged by some Russians? Putin has shut down all legitimate forms of protest, but, “OH NO! The faulty wiring is catching fire! I’d better call the fire department … in ten minutes…”
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4853 "2022-04-21T16:42:50Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> No kidding. They are blaming “aging wiring” for one fire. Sure, sure.
I doubt Ukraine is using old wiring for sabotage work. Too risky
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4854 "2022-04-21T16:48:41Z")
> [@Horatius](#):
>
> They’re not using them because they can’t use them. Some combination of corruption, incompetence, insolvency and fear of Ukrainian anti-air capabilities is keeping them largely on the ground.
This makes sense. I do wonder how many of the planes had not been serviced or maintained in reality - they may have had work done “on the books”, but in actuality, the money got syphoned off into somebody’s summer house.
Airplanes, particularly military planes will not do very well if the servicing and maintenance has been neglected.
Wasn’t there something about a bunch of tanks that were discovered to be completely inoperable (No engines), when they tried to call them up? Like someone had actually sold all the parts years ago?
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### Author:  [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4855 "2022-04-21T16:53:54Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> Wasn’t there something about a bunch of tanks that were discovered to be completely inoperable (No engines), when they tried to call them up? Like someone had actually sold all the parts years ago?
Yes, there was. The guy in charge apparently killed himself because of it. It’s a safe bet the same problems are found in every branch of their military.
> **[Russian commander 'killed himself after learning 90% of his tanks are useless'](https://metro.co.uk/2022/03/28/russian-commander-killed-himself-after-learning-90-of-reserve-tanks-are-unusable-16356390/)**
>
> Ukraine claimed that some tanks did not even have engines.
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4856 "2022-04-21T16:55:15Z")
> [@AK84](#):
>
> OTH, they could be used as a source of spares and get the current lot flying for longer.
That’s my guess also. I would also guess they were shipped already partially broken down to make transport easier.
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> I suspect surface-to-air missiles have been a major part of why the air war has been so sparse. The Ukrainians demonstrated an ability to shoot down enemy aircraft very early on.
Problem being, it’s difficult to hit fast movers because of the short aim/fire window. Stingers are great for helos, not so good for something moving as fast as a fixed wing aircraft.
> [@Al128](#):
>
> case in point: the russians have STRONG reasons not to use them, otherwise they’d use them
This seems like the simple answer given what we know about the shape of other Russian equipment. Yes, losing aircraft is costly, but so is losing thousands of troops and vehicles, maybe even the war, by not using them.
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> [https://twitter.com/lapatina\_/status/1517045432467263488](https://twitter.com/lapatina_/status/1517045432467263488)
Frankly, I’m worried that Putin wants the blockade so he can use chemical weapons. People trapped in underground tunnels make for a good target with chemicals.
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> Major shift in position by Putin as he meets with Shoigu at very small table.
Maybe all the long tables were needed for de-nazifacation purposes. Like replacing blown up bridges.
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### Author:  [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4857 "2022-04-21T17:23:40Z")
Curious if others think the idea of the Russians engaging on a 300 mile wide front (much nearer to supply lines than Kyiv) is playing to Russian strengths or will it be their undoing? It can be argued that by putting pressure everywhere it taxes Russian resources to the maximum, but the same is also true of Ukraine, who at this point have less heavy weapons available, and with as wide of a front as possible, it increases the likelihood that a breakthrough will occur at _some_ point. Whether or not the Russians are in fact holding some mobile reserve ready to exploit such a breakthrough is unknown to me.
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4858 "2022-04-21T18:08:30Z")
> [@Horatius](#):
>
> Wow, those are _not_ small fires. Sabotage is definitely a possibility.
If this is sabotage, Russia is going to have to address the fact that there are two million ethnic Ukrainians living within her borders (the third largest group after Russians and Tatars.) and the vast majority of these are as unidentifiable by speech or appearance as a Canadian is to an American. The paranoia on the home front will only exasperate the stress already being caused by economic sanctions.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4859 "2022-04-21T18:19:59Z")
Biden was wise to withdraw all US forces from Afghanistan when he could. Otherwise the US would have to supply logistics stuff on 2 fronts.
Wish we’d send mountains of stuff to Ukraine, it’s not like another war is going to happen on any other front anytime soon.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4860 "2022-04-21T18:24:08Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> Biden was wise to withdraw all US forces from Afghanistan when he could. Otherwise the US would have to supply logistics stuff on 2 fronts.
Trump initiated the withdrawal. Biden just fucked it up.
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4861 "2022-04-21T18:24:51Z")
I’m vaguely recalling that back in the 80s when the UK and Argentina were having that dust-up over the Falklands, NATO stocks of materiel were being drawn down and there was some concern in the months it took to replace everything.
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### Author:  [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4862 "2022-04-21T18:25:56Z")
So much for this being a non-political informational thread.
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4863 "2022-04-21T18:30:03Z")
Especially after **What\_Exit** ’s comment – to somebody else – in [post 4804](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine/960037/4804).
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### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4864 "2022-04-21T18:36:45Z")
> [@DesertDog](#):
>
> Especially after **What\_Exit** ’s comment – to somebody else – in [post 4804](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine/960037/4804).
That was mine, and it was a silly comment for me to make upon reflection and education.
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