# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 241
### Author:  [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4865 "2022-04-21T18:52:11Z")
Moderating:
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> Biden was wise to withdraw all US forces from Afghanistan when he could. Otherwise the US would have to supply logistics stuff on 2 fronts.
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Trump initiated the withdrawal. Biden just fucked it up.
Understanding it can be difficult, please remember that bringing politics into an MPSIMS thread is not allowed. Both, please don’t do this again.
No warnings issued.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4866 "2022-04-21T19:05:22Z")
Wow, those are both actually big fires, not just “someone burned popcorn in the microwave” fires. Huh. Interesting question as to whether that’s coincidence or not.
> [@Gyrate](#):
>
> Both are way too far from Ukraine for direct military action. Could be sabotage, could be coincidence, could be them trying to rush through something military and cutting too many safety corners. Who knows?
Yep, any or all of the above.
Schadenfreude for sure.
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### Author:  [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4867 "2022-04-21T19:26:38Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#):
>
> as unidentifiable by speech or appearance as a Canadian is to an American
That’s not true eh. Sorry about that.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4868 "2022-04-21T19:44:04Z")
It appears America and NATO are determined to go for the slow bleed here. That will extract the maximum suffering on the Russian side, to be sure, but also maximize the misery of Ukraine as well. I’d rather they speed it up to help Ukraine, even if it cuts Russian suffering short.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4869 "2022-04-21T19:45:47Z")
> [@velomont](#):
>
> Sorry about that.
‘Sorey aboat that.’ 😉
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### Author:  [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4870 "2022-04-21T19:50:38Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> Wow, those are both big fires
Everybody’s talking about the fires, but there is a more important issue: how much damage will those fires do to Russia?
The building has a scary name (“Aerospace Defense Forces’ Second Central Research Institute”)–but what actually goes on there?
And the chemical factory–what specific products did it make? Let’s assume that the products are fully-weaponized chemicals. What effect will the fire have?
I assume that Russia has plenty of stockpiles of chemical weapons ready for immediate use. So the sabotage (if that’s what it was) is a nice touch of success by somebody’s undercover special forces, but will it affect the war?
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### Author:  [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4871 "2022-04-21T19:54:51Z")
Never mind, fires already covered. Another good source is The War Zone for defense news worldwide.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4872 "2022-04-21T19:56:04Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#):
>
> …as unidentifiable by speech or appearance as a Canadian is to an American.
Ukrainian and Russian [are different languages](https://www.ukrainianlessons.com/ukrainian-and-russian-languages/).
> [@](#):
>
> In terms of vocabulary, Ukrainian language is the closest to Belarusian (16% of differences)…
>
> After Belarusian, Ukrainian is also closer to Slovak, Polish and Czech than to Russian – 38% of Ukrainian vocabulary is different from Russian.
[ ](https://www.ukrainianlessons.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/ukrainian-russian-lexical-distance-1.jpg)
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### Author:  [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4873 "2022-04-21T20:05:53Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> Ukrainian and Russian [are different languages](https://www.ukrainianlessons.com/ukrainian-and-russian-languages/).
What constitutes a language vs a dialect is always fuzzy (see Max Weinrich), but I expect plenty of ethnic Ukrainians living in Russia grew up speaking Russian like Russians.
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4874 "2022-04-21T20:12:18Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> Ukrainian and Russian [are different languages](https://www.ukrainianlessons.com/ukrainian-and-russian-languages/).
Almost all of the ethnic Ukrainians living in Russia speak Russian, in fact most were born there.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4875 "2022-04-21T20:14:15Z")
I’m sure that’s true, but was just pointing out that what Ukrainians speak is not Russian with a different accent, like with Americans and Canadians. A Canadian brought up in America would likely have an American accent.
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### Author:  [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4876 "2022-04-21T20:23:00Z")
Hell, the current President of Ukraine’s original language was Russian - true bilingualism is very common in that part of the world.
I’m sure some Ukrainians speak Russian with a notable accent. From what I’ve been told, though, quite a few whose mother tongue is Russian _don’t_ have a notable accent (but may speak Ukrainian with a Russian accent…)
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### Author:  [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4877 "2022-04-21T20:23:16Z")
> [@chappachula](#):
>
> > [@Broomstick](#):
> >
> > Wow, those are both big fires
>
> Everybody’s talking about the fires, but there is a more important issue: how much damage will those fires do to Russia?
> The building has a scary name (“Aerospace Defense Forces’ Second Central Research Institute”)–but what actually goes on there?
> (…) but will it affect the war?
Reports are that several of Russia’s long range missiles were designed there.
The fires make me happy, because they show a path for Ukraine to hurt Russia on Russian soil. Ukraine won’t send missiles into civilian populations, and the helicopter attack on the petro reserves (near the border) can’t be easily repeated. But sabotage of important factories and think-tanks is perfect tit-for-tat payback.
Factories can cost more than high level military equipment, and the losses can be more impactful.
So, the fires won’t immediately cripple Russia’s war machine, but could help Putin understand that cruelty can have consequences. And Russia might have to divert resources away from the Ukraine front — if the fires were thought to be sabotage,
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4878 "2022-04-21T20:24:46Z")
> [@chappachula](#):
>
> And the chemical factory–what specific products did it make? Let’s assume that the products are fully-weaponized chemicals. What effect will the fire have?
> Dmitrievsky Chemical Plant is the largest producer of butyl acetate and industrial solvents in Russia and Eastern Europe, as well as a supplier of a wide range of chemical and petrochemical products in Russia and in the world.
If nothing else, this is just not good for the Russian economy or industries that rely on butyl acetate and industrial solvents. I have no idea what the trickle down effects of this would be.
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### Author:  [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4879 "2022-04-21T20:44:41Z")
If this was sabotage, so far from the battlefield, I have to wonder if Russia’s internal security apparat is going to ratchet up the internal repression, as @Elmer_J.Fudd mentioned. I know that revolution is still wildly unlikely, but making your people actively despise your government is a necessary first step.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4880 "2022-04-21T20:47:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> Hell, the current President of Ukraine’s original language was Russian - true bilingualism is very common in that part of the world.
Indeed. 67% of Ukrainians speak Ukrainian as their primary language, while 30% speak Russian as their primary language.
Language is not national identity, though. For example, most Irish people speak English as a first language, instead of their traditional Gaelic language, for historical reasons, but they do not consider themselves English.
The 2001 Ukrainian census showed, for the country of Ukraine as a whole, a Ukrainian ethnicity for 77.8% of the population and a Russian ethnicity for 17.3%.
Maybe Putin got the idea that eastern Ukraine would welcome the Russians as liberators by looking at the proportion of the people of Ukraine speaking Russian as a first language. In the Donbas region, according to the 2001 census, Russian is the main language of 74.9% of residents in Donetsk Oblast and 68.8% in Luhansk Oblast. However, ethnic Russians form only 39% and 38.2% of the two oblasts respectively.
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### Author:  [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4881 "2022-04-21T20:58:03Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> but was just pointing out that what Ukrainians speak is not Russian with a different accent
That they’re speaking Russian with a different accent or none at all is entirely the point.
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### Author:  [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4882 "2022-04-21T21:51:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#):
>
> Putin is _really_ hanging onto that table. His posture is… slumped. Crappy. From a guy who in the past has usually been the definition of upright and fit. He clothes seem a bit large and baggy on him. He doesn’t look good. Is he at a smaller table because he’s not strong enough to project his voice 20 feet anymore?
He looks very bad.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4883 "2022-04-21T22:56:11Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#):
>
> He looks very bad.
In the video this screencap is from, he looks worse.
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### Author:  [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)
#### Post date: [April 21, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/4884 "2022-04-21T23:25:23Z")
Yeah, I watched the video and that was the body language of a seriously distressed person. I wonder if it was just a reaction to being that close to another male he didn’t control, his paranoia levels have to be sky high.
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