# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 249
### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5025 "2022-04-25T14:39:20Z")
**Ambassador Antonov:** You’re making things worse!
**United States:** Yeah. For you!
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5026 "2022-04-25T14:53:47Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> large Western deliveries of weapons were inflaming the conflict and would lead to more losses,
Losses of Russian generals, soldiers and equipment…
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5027 "2022-04-25T14:57:19Z")
NATO: “For years, you Russians have been going on and on about how we were your enemy. You know what? You convinced us.”
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5028 "2022-04-25T15:17:58Z")
Russian State media is admitting the fuel losses?
It seems like inflated numbers. Perhaps to give Ukraine the wrong impression about fuel supplies?
> [@](#):
>
> - **Large fires broke out early on Monday at two oil depots in the Russian city of Bryansk, less than 100 miles from the border with Ukraine, in a potential act of sabotage by Kyiv.** Russian state media said[the first fire occurred at a civilian facility in Bryansk holding 10,000 tons of fuel,](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/25/large-fires-break-out-russian-oil-depots-bryansk-near-ukraine-border) followed by a second fire at a military fuel depot holding 5,000 tons.
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### Author:  [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5029 "2022-04-25T15:21:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> **Ambassador Antonov:** You’re making things worse!
>
> **United States:** Yeah. For you!
This reminds me of the last days of the Battle of Berlin, May 1, in which some still-remaining isolated Germans in a bunker surrendered and tried to start the truce diplomatically:
**German:** Greetings on this May Day, a day of joy in both our countries.
**Russian.** It is a joyous day for us. It might be different for you.
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5030 "2022-04-25T15:25:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> **Ambassador Antonov:** You’re making things worse!
>
> **United States:** Yeah. For you!
I’d _love_ to see Russia bring its _causus belli_ before the UN General Assembly. The delegates haven’t had a good laugh for a while now.
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### Author:  [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5031 "2022-04-25T15:27:16Z")
Perhaps the Russian state media is admitting to the destruction of the oil depot and inflating the figures so they can use this to spin a narrative for the domestic audience. The depot wasn’t attacked by Ukraine’s armed forces…it was bombed by _underhanded Ukrainian/NATO spies and saboteurs_. They’re lurking everywhere. Be on the lookout for them. Be fearful. We really need to be more fearful of these types. It makes all the sacrifices in terms of economic distress, loss of remaining liberties, etc. worth the price of blood that we’re paying…
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5032 "2022-04-25T15:30:33Z")
That aounds luke Russian strategy. Theyr2the victim in this war.
The Stormer is quite lethal to aircraft.
> **[The Times & The Sunday Times](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/)**
>
> News and opinion from The Times & The Sunday Times
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### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5033 "2022-04-25T15:30:40Z")
“They look just like you! Please inform your friendly GRU officials if you see, hear, or suspect anything about anyone anywhere!”
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5034 "2022-04-25T15:39:16Z")
> [@Cardigan](#):
>
> Be fearful. We really need to be more fearful of these types. It makes all the sacrifices in terms of economic distress, loss of remaining liberties, etc. worth the price of blood that we’re paying…
[ ](https://www.quotemaster.org/images/af/affca6f62cf07ed0ab1c2f857ef62375.jpg)
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5035 "2022-04-25T16:38:47Z")
Goering didn’t say that at the Nuremberg Trial. He is recorded as saying part of it in a conversation with Gustave M Gilbert, a psychologist who had access to the prisoners while the trial was ongoing and wrote _Nuremberg Diary_.
> **[Fact Check-Hermann Goering quote about scaring people to enslave them appears...](https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-goering-falsequote-idUSL1N2LM23W)**
>
> Flagged in Facebook’s efforts to combat the online spread of disinformation, posts claim to offer an authentic quote from Hermann Goering, a principal architect of Germany’s Nazi police state under the Third Reich, that includes the phrase: “The only...
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5036 "2022-04-25T16:43:48Z")
Sounds like a fairly small distinction.
The quote does say “During the Nuremburg Trials”, not AT the Nuremburg Trials.
To make it more clear, the cite at the bottom could read:
“As attributed to Goering by Gustave M. Gilbert, a psychologist who interviewed Goering in his prison cell during the Nuremburg Trials”
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### Author:  [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5037 "2022-04-25T16:52:16Z")
> [@DesertDog](#):
>
> I’d _love_ to see Russia bring its _causus belli_ before the UN General Assembly. The delegates haven’t had a good laugh for a while now.
Not since Trump spoke there.
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### Author:  [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5038 "2022-04-25T16:53:52Z")
I posted this on Facebook but it got pulled for “violating community standards.”
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5039 "2022-04-25T17:12:36Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> “As attributed to Goering by Gustave M. Gilbert, a psychologist who interviewed Goering in his prison cell during the Nuremburg Trials”
Even the quotation is not fully in line with what Gilbert recorded, and there is a difference between someone saying it in a private conversation, and an alleged war criminal saying it in the witness box when on trial.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5040 "2022-04-25T17:14:53Z")
Yes, that’s why I suggested “as attributed to Goering by Gustave M. Gilbert”
Rather than “As stated by Goering in the witness box while on trial.”
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5041 "2022-04-25T17:16:14Z")
I don’t see private conversation v public testimony as a “small distinction”. YMMV, of course.
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### Author:  [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5042 "2022-04-25T17:31:09Z")
To some extent, I’m wary or getting to involved in this situation, as I almost see signs of me viewing it as a “sports” competition. But it is fascinating. I just don’t see a positive outcome for Russia.
-So long as Russia failed to take all of Ukraine, the majority which is unoccupied remains essentially a massive military base from which anyone with any grudge against Russia can launch proxy attacks. And Ukraine can basically crater Donbas, and extend attacks as far over the border into Russia as they wish.
-On the economic front, I think each decade becomes more fluid, such that after some reasonably short interruption, folk who HAD been dependent on Russian products, find competitors popping up to provide alternatives.
-Then, the expectation is that the international community will expect Russia to compensate and rebuild Ukraine.
I’m just not seeing how this is anything other than a MONSTROUS longterm loss for Russia.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5043 "2022-04-25T18:07:52Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#):
>
> I’m just not seeing how this is anything other than a MONSTROUS longterm loss for Russia.
You are right. With this war, Russia has opted out of worldwide commerce. They can still operate as a client state of China, sending them raw products at bargain basement price.
Trade is very interconnected, and complex. When the largest container lines will not deal with your country anymore, this is a huge blow. I understand that some of these companies are moving from “Temporarily suspended cargo service to Russia” to a full on “removing themselves from all future business with Russia.”
I guess Russia can start their own container ship company. That’ll go well for whatever oligarch gets the contracts and syphons all the money out.
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5044 "2022-04-25T18:10:17Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#):
>
> I’m just not seeing how this is anything other than a MONSTROUS longterm loss for Russia.
They’ve already lost. The best outcome that Putin can hope for, since the world decided to unify economically against Russia, is that he isn’t deposed and that he is able to maintain power over his own country.
Having some fig leaf of battlefield success would help with staying in power, but it still wouldn’t be winning. Coming out in a lower position than you started is never a win.
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