# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 256
### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5165 "2022-04-28T17:53:03Z")
Imho Kyiv should be protected by Patriot missile systems. That would require a few hundred American crews. They would only be there training and providing defensive protection to Ukraine’s capital.
I wake up every morning wondering if Kyiv has been obliterated by 50 cruise missiles (not nukes).
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### Author:  [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5166 "2022-04-28T17:56:34Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> I wake up every morning wondering if Kyiv has been obliterated by 50 cruise missiles (not nukes).
And I wake up wondering if today’s the day Czar Dobby decides to start slinging nukes.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5167 "2022-04-28T17:56:53Z")
> [@Cardigan](#):
>
> I don’t understand this criticism. I mean it was publicly announced they were sending these armored cars. Why _wouldn’t_ they train Ukrainians in their use? How is that any more egregious?
It’s not. But no one wants to poke the Russian bear too hard.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5168 "2022-04-28T17:59:59Z")
> [@Seanette](#):
>
> And I wake up wondering if today’s the day Czar Dobby decides to start slinging nukes.
Why would a defensive Patriot missle shield on a single city provoke war?
It wouldn’t stop Russian aggression in Donbas. Putin could still get his corridor.
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### Author:  [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5169 "2022-04-28T18:02:03Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> Why would a defensive Patriot missle shield on a single city provoke war?
>
> It wouldn’t stop Russian aggression in Donbas. Putin could still get his corridor.
You missed my point regarding anxiety about just how far this could escalate if Putin’s as deranged as he seems. You’re thinking rationally, we can’t be sure he is.
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### Author:  [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5170 "2022-04-28T18:15:28Z")
> [@Seanette](#):
>
> You missed my point regarding anxiety about just how far this could escalate if Putin’s as deranged as he seems. You’re thinking rationally, we can’t be sure he is
I agree and this is something I worry about a lot. He’s already making lots of noises about western materiel support to Ukraine. At what point will he issue an ultimatum about that? And if he does? What then? Do we just roll over and let Ukraine and its population be disappeared by Russia, or do we step up? And, sadly, I don’t even know what the right answer is to this question.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5171 "2022-04-28T18:22:57Z")
So far, the Russians have avoided an International incident. Various Leaders recently visited Kyiv and it wasn’t attacked by missiles during their visit.
They understand risking United Nations Secretary-General António Guterres life would not be a wise decision.
The Russians did bomb the train _after_ US officials left. Probably a warning that they could have done much worse.
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### Author:  [@FrenchDunadan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrenchDunadan)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5172 "2022-04-28T18:26:27Z")
Don’t know if medias talk about it but several Russian oligarchs died by suicide…with their family…
> **[Un oligarque russe installé à Bordeaux retrouvé mort en Espagne avec sa famille](https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/nouvelle-aquitaine/gironde/bordeaux/un-oligarque-russe-installe-a-bordeaux-retrouve-mort-en-espagne-avec-sa-famille-2532988.html)**
>
> Un millionnaire russe et sa famille installés à Bordeaux retrouvés morts dans une villa en Espagne. Leurs décès interrogent alors qu’ une série de suicides touche des oligarques depuis le début de la guerre en Ukraine.
One of them was living in France, another was in England. And our others have disappeared in Russia.
Dissensions ? preemptive strike? vengeance? or just 6 millionaires that decided independently to kill themselves and their wife and children?
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### Author:  [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5173 "2022-04-28T18:38:25Z")
> [@FrenchDunadan](#):
>
> Dissensions ? preemptive strike? vengeance? or just 6 millionaires that decided independently to kill themselves and their wife and children?
What this also shows is that Putin and Russia are more than capable and willing to engage in nasty asymmetric warfare, except that the scope has been extremely limited so far. What would stop them from, instead of poisoning or irradiating one person every couple of years, doing it to a shopping mall or office tower or children’s play area at random intervals? And then what, from the west?
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5174 "2022-04-28T19:01:36Z")
> [@FrenchDunadan](#):
>
> Don’t know if medias talk about it but several Russian oligarchs died by suicide…
[It has been covered](https://www.newsweek.com/every-russian-oligarch-who-has-died-since-putin-invaded-ukraine-full-list-1700022) by mainstream media. This story includes the odd passage
> [@](#):
>
> An employee of the Investigative Committee for the Leningrad region working on Tyulyakov’s death told independent Russian newspaper [Novaya Gazeta](https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2022/03/07/nekhoroshii-poselok?utm_source=tg&utm_medium=novaya&utm_campaign=telo-61-letnego-top-menedzhera-gazproma) that forensic specialists were already working at the scene of the apparent suicide when Gazprom’s security service staff arrived and cordoned off the crime scene, leaving police officers outside the house.
Apparently Russian police cede their authority to corporate security (not sure how American police would act in a similar situation).
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5175 "2022-04-28T19:03:08Z")
> [@smithsb](#):
>
> Between captured and donate tanks, the UKR forces may outnumber the remaining Russian tanks in the theater.
But do they have the crews? They’ve surely had their own losses and training a tank crew takes months not weeks.
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> It could give Ukraine most of its remaining 13,000 Javelins right now while spending, say, the years 2022-2027 slowly replenishing the stockpile.
This is a really bad idea and has no chance of happening. You really can’t picture the US needing those in the near future? What about if this war spreads to NATO countries and all our stuff is in Ukraine? US ground forces would love that.
If Ukraine is running out of Javelins and similar weapons, it’s because they are using them on any vehicle they get their sights on rather than just tanks. APCs and light vehicles can be engaged with the much cheaper and more abundant RPGs. There must be millions of those laying around in former Soviet Union countries.
> [@FrenchDunadan](#):
>
> Don’t know if medias talk about it but several Russian oligarchs died by suicide…with their family…
I read about this awhile back but hadn’t seen any updates. Still not all that much info, but it seems to be getting dangerous to be a rich Russian these days.
[Newsweek](https://www.newsweek.com/every-russian-oligarch-who-has-died-since-putin-invaded-ukraine-full-list-1700022) story.
Shakes fist at @eschereal !
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### Author:  [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5176 "2022-04-28T19:15:46Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Taiwan. China is watching us burn through inventory.
China is also aware of the fact that if hit by the same sanctions that Russia has they would lose half a billion people in under six months.
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5177 "2022-04-28T20:39:55Z")
> [@eschereal](#):
>
> I was aiming for absurd.
To be fair, so was I, in that the “falling population” reference was to military losses.
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### Author:  [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5178 "2022-04-28T21:02:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> Taiwan. China is watching us burn through inventory.
I’m no expert on likely scenarios for a Chinese invasion of Taiwan, but I do believe that the decisive phase of a putative battle for Taiwan will happen in the Taiwan Strait, which would be a battle that Javelins will help not a whit in.
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5179 "2022-04-28T21:10:12Z")
> [@DigitalC](#):
>
> China is also aware of the fact that if hit by the same sanctions that Russia has they would lose half a billion people in under six months.
I imagine they would lose a shitload worse than that. If China were subjected to serious cordon sanctions, much of the rest of the world would struggle for a bit, but the entire global economy would ultimately be reshaped to signifcantly reduce our dependence on their peon labor force. Which could result in major cultural upheaval within China itself. The side effects of an attempt on Taiwan would be tumultuos and far-reaching.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5180 "2022-04-28T22:55:35Z")
> [@DigitalC](#):
>
> China is also aware of the fact that if hit by the same sanctions that Russia has they would lose half a billion people in under six months.
I’ve seen no signs they care.
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### Author:  [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5181 "2022-04-28T22:59:02Z")
> [@eschereal](#):
>
> Which could result in major cultural upheaval within China itself. The side effects of an attempt on Taiwan would be tumultuos and far-reaching
And hopefully this war in Ukraine isn’t just the beginning of some spectacular (in a bad way) and awful series of “turning points in history”.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5182 "2022-04-28T23:00:52Z")
Can someone explain in practical terms to me how Lend-Lease works? There was already relatively little opposition to weapons deliveries to Ukraine to begin with. What red tape does it cut through?
Can Biden now essentially executive-order any sort of weaponry to Ukraine that he wants?
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5183 "2022-04-28T23:08:13Z")
This explains it better than I can:
> **[U.S. Congress revives World War Two-era "Lend-Lease" program for Ukraine](https://www.reuters.com/world/us-congress-revives-world-war-two-era-lend-lease-program-ukraine-2022-04-28/)**
>
> The U.S. House of Representatives overwhelmingly backed legislation on Thursday that will make it easier to export military equipment to Ukraine, reviving the "Lend-Lease Act" that helped defeat Hitler during World War Two.
- But basically it speeds everything up. And gives Biden a lot more leeway to help.
- We loan them the equipment with the vague idea of future payment. We don’t actually expect full payment.
- This also lets us help other affected nations like Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and probably the Baltic nations.
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### Author:  [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5184 "2022-04-28T23:23:50Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> Unfortunately, Russia also has a very good [anti-tank weapon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M133_Kornet) that has even been used somewhat successfully against both the US Abrams and the Israeli Merkava, two top of the line tanks. Open warfare in the east may well boil down to who has the most bodies they can throw in there.
On the other hand, if any army can be trusted to use weapons **in** competently, it’s probably the Russians.
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