# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 259
### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2022, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5225 "2022-04-29T20:43:42Z")
[https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-admits-apos-serious-losses-132136423.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukraine-admits-apos-serious-losses-132136423.html)
> “We have serious losses but the Russians’ losses are much, much bigger… They have colossal losses,” Ukrainian presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych said, according to [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-rockets-hit-kyiv-un-chief-visits-besieged-mariupol-main-target-2022-04-29/).
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2022, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5226 "2022-04-29T23:01:43Z")
maneuver defense? I guess using tanks and infantry?
Institute for War [Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 29 | Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-29)
> [@](#):
>
> **April 29, 6:15pm ET**
>
> **Russian forces made limited advances west of Severodonetsk on April 29 but remain stalled south of Izyum.** Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine are likely successfully conducting a maneuver defense rather than holding static positions, redeploying mechanized reserves to resist attempted Russian advances. Concentrated Russian artillery is enabling minor Russian advances, but Ukrainian positions remain strong. Limited Ukrainian counterattacks around Kharkiv city may additionally force Russian forces to redeploy units intended for the Izyum axis to hold these positions.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2022, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5227 "2022-04-29T23:21:38Z")
> [@silenus](#):
>
> I’m more hoping that some of the people in the parade remember the assassination of Anwar Sadat during similar circumstances.
I’m guessing Putin has body doubles for that.
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### Author:  [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2022, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5228 "2022-04-29T23:57:38Z")
Í bet a lot of planning is going on for the rapid reconstruction of Ukraine and her armed forces. Once we can send back in trainers, once the Russians take off the pressure, almost anything is possible.
I hear tell NATO is going to trade in whatever artillery they have left for Western calibers.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5229 "2022-04-30T14:53:06Z")
> **[Ukraine's Air Force debunks 'Ghost of Kyiv' death, says it is not one man but...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/ukrainian-fighter-pilot-ace-known-132530013.html)**
>
> Ukraine's Air Force said the Ghost of Kyiv is not a real person, debunking reports claiming that the legendary pilot had died.
> His identity has now been revealed as Major Stepan Tarabalka, 29, killed on March 13 when “overwhelming” Russian forces shot down the MiG-29 he was flying, The Times said…
>
> His father told NPR that they were not told the details of their son’s final flight, only that he did not return after completing a mission.
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### Author:  [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5230 "2022-04-30T14:53:33Z")
Wasn’t this a hoax entirely created by an online streamer?
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5231 "2022-04-30T14:54:29Z")
> Because his identity was kept a secret, many speculated that the Ghost of Kyiv was a myth designed to boost Ukrainian morale. However, the government continued to insist that he was real.
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### Author:  [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5232 "2022-04-30T15:08:32Z")
Yes, I did read it. I also remember early on in the war someone admitting they just made him up. I’m sure you can just retroactively claim any pilot fits the profile.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5233 "2022-04-30T15:35:14Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> maneuver defense? I guess using tanks and infantry?
It’s pretty much just not assigning troops to hold positions until defeated, but quickly plugging them in to holes as required.
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### Author:  [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5234 "2022-04-30T15:50:37Z")
> [@aceplace57](#):
>
> maneuver defense? I guess using tanks and infantry?
Maneuver defense is when you aggressively attack the attacker instead of just hunkering down in a static position. You “Hold 'em by the nose and kick 'em in the ass” as said either by Patton or George C. Scott playing Patton.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5235 "2022-04-30T15:58:37Z")
Maneuver defense sounds like a good plan. There’s no sense in getting pinned down in a fixed position.
I’m curious if the Ukraine military can learn Western artillery tactics. I know soldiers are being trained on the equipment. Training artillery officers in the tactics that General Flynn describes takes actual experience.
[https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/western-artillery-surging-into-ukraine-will-reshape-war-with-russia/ar-AAWM6L5](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/western-artillery-surging-into-ukraine-will-reshape-war-with-russia/ar-AAWM6L5)
> [@](#):
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> The introduction of various Western artillery pieces is expected to accelerate a tactical shift by both sides to employ what is known as counter-battery fire, in which military forces seek out their enemy’s artillery, determine its location and attack, analysts said.
>
> “You’re trying to find, fix and finish,” said George Flynn, a retired three-star Marine general and former artillery officer. “You want to find the enemy howitzers. You want to fix their position. And then you want to finish them off. That’s the essence of targeting.”
>
> After an artillery unit attacks an adversary, it needs to keep moving, Flynn said. “Once you get into a counter-battery fight, it’s shoot and scoot,” he added. “You don’t stick around and let yourself get targeted.”
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### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5236 "2022-04-30T17:26:31Z")
On a related question how much “real” experience do Russian generals and upper officers have? My sense of history is often terrible-have there been many opportunities for them to see combat?
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5237 "2022-04-30T17:49:23Z")
> [@DigitalC](#):
>
> Yes, I did read it. I also remember early on in the war someone admitting they just made him up. I’m sure you can just retroactively claim any pilot fits the profile.
I’m not sure how it benefits Ukraine to lie about this pilot’s existence, then say he died. If you’re going to invent a fictitious war hero to rally morale, claiming that he’s dead now seems like it would undercut your efforts.
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5238 "2022-04-30T18:10:44Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> > Because his identity was kept a secret, many speculated that the Ghost of Kyiv was a myth designed to boost Ukrainian morale. However, the government continued to insist that he was real.
If I was forced to bet, I would guess this is a heavily embellished story. The simple fact is that Ukrainian fighters have inferior missiles compared to the Russians.
The Russians have fire and forget missiles. Once they are locked on a target and fired, the missile guides itself to the target and the fighter can move to engage another target or avoid incoming missiles.
Ukrainian fighters need to lock on the target with the aircraft’s radar, launch the missile and then continue to keep their radar on the target until the missile hits. That means flying in a direct line for miles to the target while painting it with active radar until a missile hits. Any deviation from the target will send the missile flying aimlessly.
I’ll just say if it’s all true, this guy was hands down the greatest fighter pilot ever.
> [@DigitalC](#):
>
> And it seems pretty damn useful to me to have a martyr who acts as a symbol of defiance.
Yes, martyrs are often morale boosters during wartime. Everybody loves a hero who goes down fighting the evil empire.
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### Author:  [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5239 "2022-04-30T18:11:17Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> I’m not sure how it benefits Ukraine to lie about this pilot’s existence, then say he died. If you’re going to invent a fictitious war hero to rally morale, claiming that he’s dead now seems like it would undercut your efforts.
It wasn’t them who invented him, it was some War Thunder youtuber. And it seems pretty damn useful to me to have a martyr who acts as a symbol of defiance.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5240 "2022-04-30T18:31:18Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#):
>
> Ukrainian fighters need to lock on the target with the aircraft’s radar, launch the missile and then continue to keep their radar on the target until the missile hits.
The R-27 (looks similar to a Sapprow) is made in semi-active radar homing versions, but also infrared and active radar homing versions. The R-60 and R-73 (look like Sidewinders) use infrared guidance.
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5241 "2022-04-30T18:51:05Z")
According to [this](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/04/30/ukraines-pilots-are-flying-into-battle-with-poor-missiles-its-one-reason-they-get-shot-down/), Ukraine only has the R-27 models, all of which have passive radar, and very short range R-73. Apparently the aircraft they have couldn’t fire more advanced missiles even if they had them.
So the longer they have to fly towards the Russian aircraft, the closer they get to AA guns and missiles. And if they have to avoid ground fire, they lose control of their missiles.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5242 "2022-04-30T19:00:39Z")
Yeah, the R-27 is akin to the American AIM-7 Sparrow while Russia’s R-77 (AA-12 Adder) is more like an AMRAAM.
That being said, despite having an overwhelming advantage in the air, the Russians still have hardly gained air superiority. They are bizarrely timid and…scaredy-cat in this air war.
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### Author:  [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5243 "2022-04-30T19:09:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> They are bizarrely timid and…scaredy-cat in this air war.
Either the air war is the most under-reported part of this invasion or both sides AA defenses are so incredibly deadly that no one dares fly against them unless it’s absolutely necessary.
Reports of aircraft sorties and losses are all over the place. And nobody even tries to guess if losses are by AA or air to air combat.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5244 "2022-04-30T19:11:41Z")
WaPo had a good go-over of the arty going into Ukraine right now. Time to send even more, King-of-Battle the Russkies all the way out.
> **[Western artillery surging into Ukraine will reshape war with Russia](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/04/30/ukraine-russia-artillery/)**
>
> The addition of Western artillery in Ukraine is expected to set off a bloody battle of wits, forcing both sides to grow more nimble if they hope to avoid significant fatalities as fighting intensifies in the east.
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