# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 270
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5445 "2022-05-06T02:02:39Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Up to now, Russia has been fighting with one hand behind their back in terms of manpower. A declaration of war would allow the government to commit full reserves, active conscription, and conversion of industry to war production. But how might this affect the outcome long term? All the statements about Russia being able to benefit from full mobilization makes me think of this quote from Ho Chi Minh to the French, long before my country got involved. > [@](#): > > You can kill ten of my men for _every_ one I kill of yours. But even at those odds, you will lose and I will win. Because how many millions of its own people is Russia willing to sacrifice for this insane goal? You can throw men at the problem, but without something more than that, all you get is graves if the problem is a war. Ukraine has nowhere to go, and so it will generally fight until the last man. I don’t think that Russia can conscript its way into winning this war without equipping the troops with more than they’ve received so far. Their problem is not only manpower, but strategy and tactics. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5446 "2022-05-06T03:57:48Z")
Russia doesn’t have the capital resources for an extended ground war. It’s not a wealthy country in relation to it’s size. It will literally bankrupt the country. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5447 "2022-05-06T04:03:26Z")
Kremlin owned news claims Russian soldiers found Satanic symbols at a building run by Ukrainian soldiers. > **[Russian State Media Claims to Discover Militarized Ukrainian Witches](https://www.vice.com/en/article/dypmpk/russian-state-media-claims-to-discover-militarized-ukrainian-witches)** > > In a recent report from a village near Luhansk, Russian journalists claimed to discover the remnants of occult rituals in a building once used by Ukrainian soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5448 "2022-05-06T04:09:10Z")
You might [try also reading the thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24/960037/5394) ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5449 "2022-05-06T04:32:34Z")
Funny the site didn’t tell me that link had been used before. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5450 "2022-05-06T04:35:12Z")
Same news story, different source (Vice vs. Newsweek). ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5451 "2022-05-06T04:41:06Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > Any bets on the Victory Day parade and speech? Following the “liberation” of Mariupol and the defeat of the Azov batallion, Ukraine’s Nazi problem is under control for now and they’re going to focus on “peacekeeping” efforts in the “independent” Donbas regions. To commemorate this Great Patriotic Victory, Putin will trepidaciously acquiesce to the people’s overwhelming demand that he assume the office of Czar. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5452 "2022-05-06T09:41:02Z")
Mr. Lavrov, welcome to your new office. It’s the only one on the fifteenth floor with windows that open. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5453 "2022-05-06T10:41:23Z")
there is word on reddit that the Admiral Makarov has been sunk by the Ukr. … anybody any supporting information? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5454 "2022-05-06T10:58:37Z")
Also, the Vikalina Market in Vladikavkaz in North Ossetia is reported to be [massively on fire](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNmmPxx9yT0). I know fires happen, but there sure do seem to be a lot of big ones in Russia lately. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5455 "2022-05-06T11:09:09Z")
Not confirmed yet, just a claim by the Ukrainians: > **[Russian frigate Admiral Makarov ‘on fire after being hit by Ukrainian missile’](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ship-admiral-makarov-ukraine-war-b2073007.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Main&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1651834948)** > > Ship was sailing near Snake Island when hit, say reports Of course “on-fire” does not mean “sunk”. This is claimed to be an image of it: [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSEYWFbXsAE5ymU?format=jpg&name=medium) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSEYWFbXsAE5ymU?format=jpg&name=medium) …not sure why the smoke is so low however and frankly this could be anything. Surely the winds can’t be that strong. Part of me wonders if this is a jet ski. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5456 "2022-05-06T11:18:22Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I know fires happen, but there sure do seem to be a lot of big ones in Russia lately. “Is annual tradition that we just made up today. Victory fires, yes?” ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5457 "2022-05-06T12:03:18Z")
I found retired US Army Maj. Gen. Mike Repass analysis very interesting. Repass has advised the Ukrainian military for the past six years on a US government contract. He recently visited Poland and western Ukraine. Repass is looking at the next phase of the war. Giving Ukraine advanced weapons has stalled advancing Russian forces. That won’t be enough to actually push them out of Ukraine territory. A relatively small force has to be trained and equipped outside the country. It requires patience. This won’t happen overnight. Ukraine must have a tightly trained force that can defeat Russian forces. The next question is whether NATO is willing to take these steps? Repass is suggesting that training be spread over 5 countries. I assume many Ukrainian vets would be included in this training. That will make a big difference. I hope a plan similiar to this is being implemented. Throwing weapons at the problem won’t be enough to defeat Russian forces inside Ukraine. > [@](#): > > I think there’s a growing realization among NATO countries and the international community that we’re going to have to do something besides resource Ukraine’s current fight. So, there are four things that the US and its allies need to do. First, we need to weaken Russia by strengthening Ukrainian capabilities. Second, we need to further deter Russia by increasing our own and NATO’s capabilities. Third, is degrading Russia’s armed forces and capabilities. Finally, we need to ensure Russia’s defeat in Ukraine, and that is done by building a strategic and operational reserve force for Ukraine that can do offensive operations to kick the Russians out of Ukraine and secure its borders. > [@](#): > > **BERGEN:** What does that look like in practice? > > **REPASS:** You need to have the US, French, Poles, UK and the Germans each build a brigade’s worth of Ukrainian combat power. Those nations have significant military capacity and could generate forces by equipping Ukrainian units and then training them in their own nations. So, that would be five brigades, in five operational sectors. And you would need probably six to eight months to implement that. These five brigades would have Western equipment fighting in Western ways, an integrated air-land battle approach where you have all the means available to you, to include NATO-interoperable tanks, close-air support and air defense. [https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/04/opinions/bergen-repass-ukraine-interview/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/04/opinions/bergen-repass-ukraine-interview/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5458 "2022-05-06T12:45:47Z")
I wonder what air assets Repass is referring to when he speaks of these future Ukrainian brigades fighting an “integrated air-land battle approach?” Ukraine’s air assets are anemic. The plan seems to imply we’ll also be furnishing jets and helicopters as well. I don’t see how we could equip, provide all the necessary maintenance resources, and train pilots in 6 - 8 months time. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5459 "2022-05-06T13:10:23Z")
I’m not sure about air assets. Repass helped build the Ukrainian forces that surprised the Russians at the beginning of the war. He should be familar with the available assets. I hope he doesn’t expect NATO to provide air cover in Ukraine. That won’t happen. Imho I’m concerned that the Ukrainian forces have been fighting almost 3 month. Their losses must be mounting and becoming a concern. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5460 "2022-05-06T13:13:41Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > I wonder what air assets Repass is referring to when he speaks of these future Ukrainian brigades fighting an “integrated air-land battle approach?” Ukraine’s air assets are anemic. The plan seems to imply we’ll also be furnishing jets and helicopters as well. I don’t see how we could equip, provide all the necessary maintenance resources, and train pilots in 6 - 8 months time. I’m not a pilot, but the A-10 Warthog is an older plane and presumably less complicated to learn to operate than the current NATO fighters. I’m guessing the Warthog would figure in significantly. Maybe some of the older model F/A -18s as well. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5461 "2022-05-06T13:19:07Z")
I know the Air Force is trying hard to phase out the Warthogs, in fact they’re currently undersupplied in repair and maintenance parts. But I thought a major issue with Warthogs today was that this Vietnam era “grounds troops best friend” is very vulnerable to modern portable missiles? So while the Air Force would probably be happy to give them to the Ukrainians, can they still do the job against the Russian forces? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5462 "2022-05-06T14:06:38Z")
The time will soon come when we will ask the Ukrainians to train us. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5463 "2022-05-06T14:12:39Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > But I thought a major issue with Warthogs today was that this Vietnam era “grounds troops best friend” is very vulnerable to modern portable missiles? That is certainly true. MANPADS are far more effective against slow moving targets than fast ones. They’re death to helicopters and slow planes, but struggle to shoot down fast jets. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5464 "2022-05-06T14:15:06Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > The time will soon come when we will ask the Ukrainians to train us. Huh? Can you explain? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=269) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=271)