# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/541 "2022-02-28T13:22:28Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Such as, a couple of goofballs making a homebrewed disinfo video with some stuff they found. How many operable and fueled-up MT-LBs with Z’s painted on the back of them do you suppose are just lying around the countryside, waiting for some “goofballs” to find them and make prank videos with them? > [@](#): > > How can you be so sure that this is a “captured Russian war machine”, given that Ukraine owns and operates over 1,500 of these MT-LB vehicles? It could as easily be Ukranian. You’d think the Ukrainians would be using those things right now instead of leaving them abandoned on the roadside with a full tank and a Z painted on so that some goofballs could appropriate them. Unless the guy speaking Ukrainian in the video is actually saying “Like, comment, and subscribe”, this seems unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/542 "2022-02-28T13:23:08Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > I posted this yesterday and, now seeing posts about Russian bringing in Su-34s and using the MLRS, and more I’m sure, I wonder how easily NATO can resist the temptation to intervene if the number of atrocities in NATO’s backyard start mounting, all the while being extremely visible in the media. NATO can resist that very easily. Mostly because intervening militarily would likely mean the end of civilization in a nuclear Armageddon. How does the old saying go? I don’t know what weapons they’ll fight WW III with, but WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/543 "2022-02-28T13:29:38Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > How many operable and fueled-up MT-LBs with Z’s painted on the back of them do you suppose are just lying around the countryside, waiting for some “goofballs” to find them and make prank videos with them? You don’t know where the vehicle came from, you don’t know who found it, you don’t know who painted the Z on them. Spray-paint is not a controlled military export, I’m sure it’s not hard to find a can or two in Ukraine. You saw a 4-second clip of a rolling vehicle. It’s a funny and inspiring scene that we’d like to be true, so your mind is uncritically providing the details that would make it true. Again I’m not asserting it’s fake, I’m simply asserting that it’s highly questionable and unconfirmed, and people are passing around a lot of disinfo that they’d like to be true. This may very well be one such piece of disinfo. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/544 "2022-02-28T13:30:17Z")
Closed on February 28, 2022, 1:30pm UTC ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/545 "2022-02-28T13:31:29Z")
**modhat** : As this is becoming a distraction from the thread, please move on from the argument over the tank being hauled by a tractor. No more on this subject in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/546 "2022-02-28T13:31:37Z")
Opened on February 28, 2022, 1:31pm UTC ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/547 "2022-02-28T13:31:39Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Mostly because intervening militarily would likely mean the end of civilization in a nuclear Armageddon. I get that though IMHO this also depends on Putin’s ultimate objectives. For example, after Ukraine (however that turns out) the question itself may be academic if Putin just has to go after the other former Warsaw Pact countries. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/548 "2022-02-28T13:45:46Z")
Russian Mi17 transport Helos (think US Blackhawks but bigger) escorted by gunships are seen flying low south of Kyiv. [https://twitter.com/psfaero/status/1498287831315329025?s=21](https://twitter.com/psfaero/status/1498287831315329025?s=21) Guessing going to start an air assault. Further north and west, Belorussian convoys seen moving south. [https://twitter.com/psfaero/status/1498267700883120128?s=21](https://twitter.com/psfaero/status/1498267700883120128?s=21) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/549 "2022-02-28T15:14:33Z")
Rumors from a source I trust indicate the Foreign Legion is releasing its Ukrainian soldiers. Usually there are quite a few of them. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/550 "2022-02-28T15:34:15Z")
This is very powerful testimony from the Ukrainian representative at the UN. Russia will of course say it’s lies. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/551 "2022-02-28T16:23:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Sorry, it’s historically been a strange arrangement between France and NATO. I’ve always thought of them as independently in alignment. Yeah, for 40 years France was a member but was not part of the unified command structure. They have been back in that since IIRC 2009 (maybe with some reservations, I’m not sure.) All along they were part of the Article 5 mutual defense deal, though, which is the most critical part. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/552 "2022-02-28T16:23:48Z")
Reports today Russia is sending in mercenaries, which is a war crime. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/553 "2022-02-28T16:27:04Z")
France has always tried to go its own way, especially on the military side. For a while, they have been pushing the idea of an independent, combined European military. I think the French have really questioned the US’s commitment to European defense, and, rightfully they feel that they should have the ability to defend themselves without the US. I don’t think that, to this point, they have gotten a lot of traction outside of France for a unified European military, and not sure how it would work if it happened, but it might be more palatable with this Russian adventure right on Europe’s doorstep. If nothing else, it seems to be getting the NATO members on board with bringing their own individual militaries up to scratch. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/554 "2022-02-28T16:28:51Z")
The Russian-Ukrainian talks have just ended. When you’re the defense minister of a country that has been invaded and you attend talks with the invaders, I wonder what the strategy is for making the most of such a meeting. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/555 "2022-02-28T16:35:18Z")
New intel suggests that Lukashenko, the thug who rules Belarus, will be sending in Belarusian forces to assist the Russian invasion. Don’t know how much difference this will make but it isn’t good news. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/556 "2022-02-28T16:35:27Z")
Basically, Ukraine seems to have reiterated their core demands, that Russia ceases operations and withdraw back into Russia. I think Russia made similar demands to what they have been making all along, the core of which is regime change and annexation of the territories they either have already or that are part of these new independent regions Putin and the Duma declared. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/557 "2022-02-28T16:41:19Z")
I don’t think they will make much difference, if any at all, and not much of a surprise with the increasing rhetoric coming out of Belarus. I haven’t looked, but my WAG is their OOB is pretty much old, crappy, and poorly upgraded and maintained Soviet-era gear, poor training, poor leadership, etc. IIRC, they have mainly T-72 tanks (a couple hundred) and a few T-80’s…none of them with the most modern upgrades. All their APCs are the old type, with maybe a few Chinese knockoffs. Same goes for their artillery. Airforce wise they have some Mig-29’s, IIRC, and some Su-25s…but their entire military air force isn’t more than a hundred or so planes and less than a hundred helicopters. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/558 "2022-02-28T16:42:21Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Basically, Ukraine seems to have reiterated their core demands, that Russia ceases operations and withdraw back into Russia. I think Russia made similar demands to what they have been making all along, the core of which is regime change and annexation of the territories they either have already or that are part of these new independent regions Putin and the Duma declared. The news here is saying that the Russians are demanding that Ukraine be neutral and demilitarized. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/559 "2022-02-28T16:43:04Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > When you’re the defense minister of a country that has been invaded and you attend talks with the invaders, I wonder what the strategy is for making the most of such a meeting. Realistically, I expect that everyone there realizes that they’re a useless but necessary part of the war. At some point, one team will pull ahead or fall behind and, at that point, the leading group will want to be able to pounce and try and convince the enemy that they’re better to throw in the towel and negotiate while they still have something to lose. So you want to have both sides together, in a room, able to react to real-time information in case the moment comes that there’s something to be arranged. Up until that point, though, they might as well all perfect their tan as hold discussions. It’s a bit pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/560 "2022-02-28T16:45:22Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Reports today Russia is sending in mercenaries, which is a war crime. Is it? Then why tf is Eric Prince still walking around free? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=29)