# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 287
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5785 "2022-05-18T02:08:58Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Awesome messaging from the Ukrainians…someone likes American movies… 🤠 That is…spectacular. I really, really hope it’s real and not a fake. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5786 "2022-05-18T02:11:38Z")
Rule of thumb is the Ukrainian numbers are probably close on to twice what the real numbers are, any figures coming out of Russia more like half. Bear in mind that both sides will be lying, for morale purposes. Still, even 14K works out to c. 170/day, which is brutal. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5787 "2022-05-18T02:28:52Z")
I don’t think there’s any such rule of thumb. By US and UK estimates, Russia would have passed 15,000 KIA weeks ago. From wikipedia: 10,000+ killed / \> 30 March / US estimate 15,000 killed / \> 25 April / UK estimate ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5788 "2022-05-18T02:38:09Z")
It’s real, and not the only example: [https://pbs.twimg.com/card\_img/1522582026834128896/dKgXaZ8N?format=jpg&name=900x900](https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1522582026834128896/dKgXaZ8N?format=jpg&name=900x900) > **[‘Red Dawn’ hits Ukraine after destroyed Russian armor gets tagged with...](https://taskandpurpose.com/news/destroyed-russian-armor-wolverines-red-dawn/?taid=627d7a71ecc7eb0001b32ce8&utm_campaign=trueanthem_AI&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter)** > > A recent photo from Ukraine shows an abandoned Russian BMP-2 graffitied with "Wolverines" in an apparent reference to the movie "Red Dawn." ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5789 "2022-05-18T04:16:47Z")
Yep! [![](https://twt-thumbs.washtimes.com/media/image/2022/03/21/B1shapiroLGukrainer_c0-308-1600-1240_s885x516.jpg?15434a12b0426948d8ccc907efe1134a9c49944d) ](https://twt-thumbs.washtimes.com/media/image/2022/03/21/B1shapiroLGukrainer_c0-308-1600-1240_s885x516.jpg?15434a12b0426948d8ccc907efe1134a9c49944d) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5790 "2022-05-18T05:47:40Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > It’s real, and not the only example Ugh. Good on them, I guess. But man do I despise that film. It’s like the Neo-Nazis in the Azov battalion. I admire their dogged defense of Mariupol. But on the other hand, they’re fucking Nazi trash. Ah, war - always with the cognitive dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5791 "2022-05-18T13:34:07Z")
The Russian Duma has woken from their slumber. Imagine their surprise that Russian president Valdimir Putin and the military have bungled the war. I’m curious to see how this plays out. I rarely see criticism of Putin by state officials. Russia has a new BMPT? I wonder how it compares to NATO equipment? [Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, May 17 | Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-17) > [@](#): > > Russian forces may be pushing hard to win the Battle of Severodonetsk in part to forestall emerging criticism of the Russian military campaign in the domestic information space. Russian State Duma Deputy from the Communist Party Viktor Sobolev expressed surprise over the lack of significant victories in Donbas compared to a number of successful operations in 2014.[15] Sobolev said that Russian forces must finally finish up the “special military operation” in Donbas and at least create an effective cauldron (encirclement) in Severodonetsk. Sobolev also criticized the Russian command for initiating a large-scale offensive operation without destroying Ukrainian strike capabilities. Luhansk Oblast Head Serhiy Haidai claimed that Russian forces are committing most of their combat power to a shallow encirclement to reassure the Russian population of Russian successes in Ukraine.[16] Pro-Russian Telegram channels began celebrating the arrival of a BMPT “Terminator” urban warfare vehicle in Severodonetsk’s vicinity, portraying it as a Russian wonder weapon.[17] BMPT is already online > **[BMPT Terminator](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMPT_Terminator)** > > The BMPT "Terminator" (Боевая машина поддержки танков - Tank Support Fighting Vehicle) is an armored fighting vehicle (AFV), designed and manufactured by the Russian company Uralvagonzavod. This vehicle was designed for supporting tanks and other AFVs in urban areas. The BMPT is unofficially named the "Terminator" by the manufacturers. It is heavily armed and armored to survive in urban combat. The AFV is armed with four 9M120 Ataka missile launchers, two 30 mm 2A42 autocannons, two AG-17D gre ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5792 "2022-05-18T14:24:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Pro-Russian Telegram channels began celebrating the arrival of a BMPT “Terminator” urban warfare vehicle in Severodonetsk’s vicinity, portraying it as a Russian wonder weapon.[17] They should post pictures of it with it’s exact coordinates in order to reassure the Duma. Maybe on unsecured cell phones. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5793 "2022-05-18T14:43:46Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > It’s like the Neo-Nazis in the Azov battalion. I admire their dogged defense of Mariupol. But on the other hand, they’re fucking Nazi trash. This point isn’t 100% clear. They seem to be part of a religion that still uses shamanistic symbolism: > [@Trees, Nazis, and Ukrainians](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trees-nazis-and-ukrainians/964508): > > I like to research ancient religion and, in my personal classification, the two largely unknown yet massively distributed religions of prehistoric times seem to have been what I call “The Mountain Religion” and “The Tree Religion”. We see the Mountain Religion pop up among the Greeks, Romans, Hebrews, and the Indians. We have deities who [live](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Olympus#Name_and_mythological_associations) on a [mountain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Kailash#Religious_significance), the supreme deity is often [represented](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh#Iron_Age_I_(1200%E2%80%931000_BCE)) as or with [a bull](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nandi_(Hinduism)), and one of his sons was a storm god. The Tree Religion, on the other hand, was f… > **[Jewish Ukrainians gear up for fierce Russia fight, alongside the 'neo-Nazis'...](https://www.jta.org/2022/03/04/global/jewish-ukrainians-gear-up-for-fierce-russia-fight-alongside-the-neo-nazis-they-say-putin-is-lying-about)** > > "Ukrainian Jews are not silent when injustice is going on. This is what being Jewish is all about,” said Daniel Kovzhun, who is preparing to defend Kyiv with a gun he doesn't know how to shoot. I’m still researching but I think that politically, in terms of what they think of foreigners, they’re more in the realm of Tucker Carlson than Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5794 "2022-05-18T14:50:47Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > they’re more in the realm of Tucker Carlson than Hitler. Of course, there isn’t as much difference there as one could wish . . . ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5795 "2022-05-18T14:54:17Z")
I’m sure most have heard by now about the retired Russian colonel who was openly critical on Monday of both the political and military outcomes of the ‘special military operation’ thus far. [Retired colonel speaks out on Russian TV - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61484222) Since this was featured prominently on state run tv, what does this portend? That this retired military figure was permitted to speak these things was no accident. Could it be the Russian public is being prepared for the possibility of the future withdrawal of their troops? If so, this could represent the first public move in that direction. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5796 "2022-05-18T15:06:07Z")
Interesting. If that was planned, or at least allowed at this point, perhaps it is to lower expectations around the outcome of Putin’s little military adventure, as well as set-up someone (or a group of people) to take the fall for the failure. I think there were two important things he said: 1) “the world is against us” - acknowledging the country is isolated and the sanctions are biting, and 2) “Ukrainian soldiers defending their motherland” - acknowledging Ukraine as an entity is someone’s homeland (other than Russia). ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5797 "2022-05-18T15:13:13Z")
It is a bit curious why tightly-controlled Russian state media allowed his voice to be heard. In a [previous appearance on a similar program](https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1523036461595242498) he had also been critical. In addition, he wrote a prescient article before the war saying that it would be a bad idea - it can be [read here](https://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2022-02-03/3_1175_donbass.html) (it’s in Russian, but can be auto-translated). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5798 "2022-05-18T15:30:41Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > Of course, there isn’t as much difference there as one could wish . . . Carlson is popular in Russia, so they’re not ones to talk. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5799 "2022-05-18T15:32:53Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > That this retired military figure was permitted to speak these things was no accident. Could it be the Russian public is being prepared for the possibility of the future withdrawal of their troops? If so, this could represent the first public move in that direction. The interesting thing is that, probably, the media can’t report on what he said so if their intent is to start disseminating his message, they need to retract the reporting laws first. Alternately, they will need to start bringing him on to every show so that he can give the message, more broadly, which could in turn create a situation where they’ve created a nationally famous, trustworthy figure who is in opposition to Putin… ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5800 "2022-05-18T15:58:57Z")
Here’s an article on the Azov Battalion from a Jewish news website: > **[Azov Battalion - The Defenders of Mariupol](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/defenders-of-mariupol-azov)** > > Learn about the Azov battalion, their bad reputation based on their past, and how they became the defenders of Mariupol. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5801 "2022-05-18T16:24:08Z")
Awesome article. Thank you for sharing that. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5802 "2022-05-18T17:08:05Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Here’s an article on the Azov Battalion from a Jewish news website: > > [https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/defenders-of-mariupol-azov](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/defenders-of-mariupol-azov) > [@snowthx](#): > > Awesome article. Thank you for sharing that. For the record, I also posted an article about Azov from a Jewish news site: > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > [https://www.jta.org/2022/03/04/global/jewish-ukrainians-gear-up-for-fierce-russia-fight-alongside-the-neo-nazis-they-say-putin-is-lying-about](https://www.jta.org/2022/03/04/global/jewish-ukrainians-gear-up-for-fierce-russia-fight-alongside-the-neo-nazis-they-say-putin-is-lying-about) ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5803 "2022-05-18T21:09:21Z")
Google’s Russian subsidiary announced it’s planning to file for bankruptcy, saying Russia’s seizure of its bank account has made it untenable for it to function. The company had already paused most of its commercial operations in Russia, including all advertising, after the country’s communications censor accused the company’s YouTube video service of spreading misinformation and stoking protests. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5804 "2022-05-18T21:46:29Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Since this was featured prominently on state run tv, what does this portend? That this retired military figure was permitted to speak these things was no accident. Could it be the Russian public is being prepared for the possibility of the future withdrawal of their troops? If so, this could represent the first public move in that direction. Putin’s image has always been carefully portrayed to the public. So I think it’s a big deal if someone of stature criticizes him. And lives. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=286) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=288)