# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 288
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2022, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5805 "2022-05-18T22:48:12Z")
Footage of Russia’s BMPT. I noticed it turns a circle very quickly. It’s very nimble. That could be bad news for someone taking a shot at it. Sorry for the link. The video was released by Russia to show off the vehicle’s capabilities. Hoping that we’ll see these destroyed along the roads. > **[Russia's much-vaunted Terminator war vehicles deployed in Ukraine](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10829005/Putin-unleashes-Terminators-Russias-vaunted-war-vehicles-finally-deployed.html)** > > Video shows the much-vaunted 'Terminator' armoured vehicles, which are designed to support infantry units fighting in urban areas, in the Donbas region in eastern Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5806 "2022-05-19T01:47:37Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Footage of Russia’s BMPT. > > I noticed it turns a circle very quickly. It’s very nimble. That could be bad news for someone taking a shot at it. Literally all tanks turn on their axis by spinning 1 track opposite the other. It’s not nimble, it’s a maintenance liability when the tracks are shot off. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5807 "2022-05-19T03:00:25Z")
**"Our elite Airborne VDV will swoop in and secure the key points"** “Umm… not without air support they won’t. And exactly how many Major Generals did they have? You’d think they’d be running out by now.” **"OK let’s throw our advanced “Alligator” helicopter gunship at them!"** “Geeze, damn, look at that, MANPAD took that sucker right down.” **"Flank them by sea with our mighty fleet!"** _“There seems to be something bloody wrong with our ships today.”_ **"Let’s bring to bear our renowned cyberwarfre resources."** “They left for Georgia when we stopped paying them.” **"All right deploy the awesome T-90M tank!"** “Blyat, pop goes the fuckin’ weasel, what a surprise. Tell me we _are_ phasing out this design with the next one?” **"Harrumph, OK, time to roll out the Terminator BMPT!"** “Hope springs eternal, Sir?” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5808 "2022-05-19T03:07:08Z")
It is like that guy who is in a loud-and-rising fight with his wife, and every thing he says just makes it worse for him, but he cannot seem to figure out that what he needs to do is STFU. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5809 "2022-05-19T05:03:24Z")
Recently-destroyed Mariupol to become “resort city”: > [@](#): > > **Russian occupation authorities announced plans to destroy the Azovstal Steel Plant and turn Mariupol into a resort city, depriving Russia of some of the most important economic benefits it hoped to reap by taking the city in the first place.** Head of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Denis Pushilin stated that DNR authorities are planning to level Azovstal after completing its capture. > > … > > Pushilin stated that the DNR intends to rebuild Mariupol to be a “resort city,” while admitting that 60% of the structures in Mariupol have been destroyed to the point where they cannot be rebuilt. The announced plan to turn Mariupol into a center of tourism and leisure following the complete destruction of a major center of economic activity in Mariupol, is indicative of the damage that Russian troops have inflicted on themselves through the destruction of Mariupol. Russia does not need another resort town on the Black Sea. It does need the kind of hard currency that a plant like Azovstal had generated. This announcement epitomizes the kind of Pyrrhic victories Russian forces have won in Ukraine, to the extent that they have won victories at all. > **[Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-18)** > > Russian occupation authorities announced plans to destroy the Azovstal Steel Plant and turn Mariupol into a resort city, depriving Russia of some of the most important economic benefits it hoped to reap by taking the city in the first place. Head of... ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5810 "2022-05-19T14:50:21Z")
The retired Russian colonel/military expert has appeared on Russian state TV again. However, from the two-minute clip at least, his tone has changed. Firstly, he says that “in the very near future, all that will remain of the [American-provided M777 howitzers] will be memories” after they are targeted by Russian military forces. This was accompanied by video of a Russian strike failing to hit a M777 howitzer. He also denies Ukraine are having success in counterattacks, strangely using Snake Island as his cite, while ignoring the successful Ukrainian counterattacks around Kyiv, Sumy and Kharkiv. > ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5811 "2022-05-19T15:13:58Z")
> **[‘Our Commander Is Leaving With Us’: Putin’s Troops Openly Plot to Ditch...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/commander-leaving-us-putin-troops-142125501.html)** > > “It’s not desertion, because we shouldn’t be on this territory.” > Russian soldiers are apparently so sick of Vladimir Putin’s “stupid” war in Ukraine that they are now openly plotting with their own commanders to go AWOL… > > The soldier… complains that he and others in his battalion are so under-equipped that even the Chechen forces fighting alongside them mock them as “meat.” > > “They don’t provide us with any [equipment],” he says, adding that the rifles given to snipers are “from 1945.” > > Other units “look at them and go, ‘holy shit, what would you need those for?’ They laugh at us… The Chechens call us meat.” > > “It’s not desertion, because we shouldn’t be on this territory. … We crossed the border as 200s,” he says, using a Russian military term for those killed in battle. “We’re not actually here. So if they say I’m a deserter, fuck off, I’m not here. Prove otherwise.” ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5812 "2022-05-19T15:21:16Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > It is like that guy who is in a loud-and-rising fight with his wife, and every thing he says just makes it worse for him, but he cannot seem to figure out that what he needs to do is STFU Now I’m picturing Putin in a wife-beater undershirt with a can of PBR. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5813 "2022-05-19T16:33:35Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Recently-destroyed Mariupol to become “resort city”: Yeah? If I were Ukraine, I’d ensure that they have reason to include in their promotional materials, “Enjoy spending time in our luxurious bomb shelters, to avoid the rain of incoming artillery!” Of course, that would be after I made every effort to destroy everything they tried to construct. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5814 "2022-05-19T18:02:05Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Now I’m picturing Putin in a wife-beater undershirt with a can of PBR Those are not bloodstains on it: he cannot seem to avoid spilling his borscht at dinner and while at work always ends up wiping his plutonium-caked hands on his shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5815 "2022-05-19T18:14:49Z")
From The Atlantic (news, summarized below for the hurried). > **[Is Russia Reassessing Its War on Ukraine?](https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/peacefield/628410120a81280021a42fd1/russia-ukraine-war-outcome-changing/)** > > The war in Ukraine drags on, but there are signs of change. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5816 "2022-05-19T18:18:41Z")
Summary: 3 points 1. First, the worst did not happen on Victory Day, which is (so far) a relief. I was pretty worried based on some concerns floating around [British and U.S. intelligence circles that Putin could declare war on Ukraine and NATO and anyone else that he thinks has frustrated his hare-brained scheming in Ukraine. Instead, we got something of a damp squib of a Victory Day speech, in which Putin whined that he had no choice but to act against an imminent Ukrainian-Western-NATO threat… 2. Second, after months of American efforts to reach the Russian high command, a senior Russian defense official has finally answered the phone. Washington and Moscow have managed to keep communications open at lower levels, but neither Putin nor his top defense officials have been responding to requests for a discussion… 3. Finally, there was Khodaryonok’s appearance on Russian television a few days ago. This is not his first time in public; Khodaryonok is a well-known security commentator and he was on Russian TV a few weeks ago. He is a sober and stoic critic of the war who stated, in very matter-of-fact terms, why Russia is losing. Even before the war, he laid out why Putin’s plan was likely to fail in an article, and now he’s being proven right in spades. On the Russian television show _60 Minutes_ , Khodaryonok pulled no punches… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5817 "2022-05-19T18:52:00Z")
[Emphasis mine] > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > but neither Putin nor his **top defense officials** have been responding to requests for a discussion… What are ‘top defence officials’? According to CNN, ‘Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley spoke with his Russian counterpart, General Staff Gen. Valery Gerasimov, by phone on Thursday…’ ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5818 "2022-05-19T20:19:16Z")
It seems that the Siege of Mariupol/Azovstal may not yet be over: > ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5819 "2022-05-19T21:11:37Z")
Yeah I don’t know, I feel like some of this is rationalization and mental gymnastics. If there was an American combat unit that was out there rocking swastikas, variations of the swastika, “pagan runes” with Nazi associations, and all the rest of it, people would be losing their shit and no amount of “it’s only a few of the guys” or “hey we’ve got a black dude and a Jewish dude in our unit and they don’t mind it” would quell the uproar. All the handwaving away of the Azov Regiment’s history and symbology is giving me flashbacks to the talk of “moderate rebels” that we supposedly needed to support against the “radical Islamists” in various parts of the Middle East. I do not trust that the Azov dudes are on the level. No amount of thinkpieces about them are going to get me to drop my skepticism and my suspicion that when the dust clears from this conflict, whenever that may be, we’re still going to see the word Azov in the news every now and then, and not in a good context. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5820 "2022-05-19T21:35:05Z")
The Azov Battalion was formed by local Ukrainians in response to the invasion of their country, and the unit proved itself as competent in battle against the invaders at a time when the Ukrainian military was weak and not up to task. There have been numerous analyses saying that that the ideology of the ex-militia unit is not the same now as it was at its formation in 2014. Having said that, when the war that started in 2014 is over - when the invaders have been booted out of the country and a peace treaty has been signed - I think the unit should be disbanded, as its historical baggage is not helpful. I’m pretty sure such a condition would be a prerequisite for joining the EU or NATO. Also, I think there were “moderate rebels” in Syria, but the West did not come to their aid, while Islamists from around the world did. So the influence of the moderate rebels diminished, while that of the Islamist factions grew. P.S. What’s the zwastika in your avatar pic about? ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5821 "2022-05-19T21:38:35Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > P.S. What’s the zwastika in your avatar pic about? It’s the Nissan Z emblem, surrounded by the words “NOT RUSSIAN, Don’t Shoot!”. The idea being that Nissan Z cars might be mistaken for Russian vehicles because of this emblem / and that this venerable badge has been possibly ruined by its association with Russia after this conflict, just as Nissan released its latest Z model. I don’t know if it’s in poor taste, or just too obscure of a reference for people to get, so I’ll probably change it soon. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5822 "2022-05-19T21:43:15Z")
I guess it would be like having a swastika avatar in the early 1940s with a notice saying: “Don’t shoot me, I’m a Hindu.” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5823 "2022-05-19T21:47:31Z")
The $40 billion aid package for Ukraine was approved. > **[As it happened: Biggest-ever US aid package for Ukraine approved - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61461805)** > > The Senate backs $40bn of military, economic and humanitarian support as Russian attacks continue. The US President strongly backs plans by Finland and Sweden to join Nato Also the G7 pledges $18.4 billion to Ukraine. > **[G7 pledges billions for Ukraine 'to get through this'](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/more-ukraine-fighters-surrendering-mariupol-russia-says-2022-05-18/)** > > The Group of Seven agreed on Thursday to provide Ukraine with $18.4 billion to pay its bills, funds that Ukraine's Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said would speed up Kyiv's victory over Russia and which were just as important as "the weapons you... ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5824 "2022-05-19T21:53:37Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Yeah I don’t know, I feel like some of this is rationalization and mental gymnastics. If there was an American combat unit that was out there rocking swastikas, variations of the swastika, “pagan runes” with Nazi associations, and all the rest of it, people would be losing their shit and no amount of “it’s only a few of the guys” or “hey we’ve got a black dude and a Jewish dude in our unit and they don’t mind it” would quell the uproar. > > All the handwaving away of the Azov Regiment’s history and symbology is giving me flashbacks to the talk of “moderate rebels” that we supposedly needed to support against the “radical Islamists” in various parts of the Middle East. I do not trust that the Azov dudes are on the level. No amount of thinkpieces about them are going to get me to drop my skepticism and my suspicion that when the dust clears from this conflict, whenever that may be, we’re still going to see the word Azov in the news every now and then, and not in a good context. You may be European, I don’t know, but at least in the USA we view it as a right to be racist. A KKK march in the middle of the street is completely acceptable under their right to freedom of speech, assembly, etc. If you break out a Nazi into the subcomponents of their belief system, you might have: 1. Racism. 2. Wanting to murder people. 3. Linking business and government so that businesses treat their employees well and operate in a way that emphasizes making the country seem clean, organized, and disciplined. Subtract #2 out of there and you’re basically talking the reality of most East Asian countries and, I think you’ll find, most people don’t blink an eye when you start talking about how Japan or South Korea function. So, I mean, if your average Azov person is merely _racist_ but doesn’t have any particular passion for killing Jewish people then…well, how much time have you spent over the last few decades worrying about uyoku dantai or guk-ppong? There are racists in every country and, quite often, they join the military. It’s true, but it’s not worth getting hung up on. More importantly, Ukraine isn’t _more_ full of them than Russia is, nor (likely) do they have more nor less influence in government. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=287) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=289)