# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 289
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5825 "2022-05-19T22:01:27Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > You may be European, I don’t know, but at least in the USA we view it as a right to be racist. A KKK march in the middle of the street is completely acceptable under their right to freedom of speech, assembly, etc. I’m American, and yes, people have a right to be racist if that’s really what they want to do with their lives. If the KKK went off to fight in an armed conflict, even if it was against the worst villain in the world, my hope would be that they failed miserably (interpret that however you want, I know you’re not supposed to wish harm upon anyone on this board.) It wouldn’t mean I’d be in FAVOR of whoever they were fighting against, just that I would be less than sympathetic to those particular participants in the war. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5826 "2022-05-19T22:13:45Z")
I would also like to add that one mechanism for change is: 1. Become friendly with a person. 2. Explain to _them_ what _they_ really mean when they say X. For example, someone wants be proud of his national heritage. Looking for that, he discovers some works that describe the Ukrainians as awesome heroes, connected to the spirit realm through a magic tree, and so on. Awesome! Except…the works also explain how the Jews or whatever other groups are evil. Bummer. Except that the **true** ancient works had no reference to the Jews. That’s a Christian thing and Ukrainian identity preceded that. You can immediately tell that those works are just fake trash, invented by 1940s scumbags, rather than by people truly devoted to learning Ukrainian history and coming to an understanding of the original, ancient beliefs. So here (you hand them a book) is the real deal, properly researched, and without all those Christian and Nazi influences. Voila, you’ve helped to improve the world by taking some young idiot and forcing them to go a different direction, by simply using friendliness, trust, force of personality, and superior knowledge to give them no freedom on the question of racism, and an absolute command to do a better job of living up to their aims. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5827 "2022-05-19T22:19:36Z")
So if aliens from outer space invaded America and started destroying cities, while approaching yours, and some far-right militia started kicking their butts, you’d want the aliens to win and destroy your city? Judge people by their actions. The Russian state invades sovereign nations, while fomenting unrest in others in order to try and reincorporate them into its empire at some later date. It brings death and destruction wherever it goes. The Russians as individuals, as soldiers in their army, have shown themselves to be significantly composed of looters, rapists and murderers. They are looting, raping and killing in the country they invaded every day. You want them to win over the side with the tattoos? Whatever you think of Azov, their heroism in Mariupol has saved large parts of Ukraine from being captured by the fascist invaders. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5828 "2022-05-19T22:33:22Z")
Also remember that the Azov Battalion are/were not the only defenders at Mariupol. There are/were also Naval Infantry, Ground Forces and Territorial Defense Forces there. As co-defenders, their fates are/were linked. It’s like with the Battle of Thermopylae - everyone remembers the 300 Spartans, but few recall the 700 Thespians. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5829 "2022-05-19T22:46:10Z")
But they kept acting up. I’ll let myself out Seriously, most sources agree there were 400 Thebans as well. The Spartans just had better PR. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5830 "2022-05-19T23:27:26Z")
I wonder how big is the anti-war movement? I assume it’ll gain members as the war drags on. Guardian blog > [@](#): > > Unknown Russian perpetrators have conducted a series of Molotov cocktail attacks on military commissariats throughout the country this month, likely in protest of covert mobilisation, the **Institute for the Study of War** has said in its latest assessment of the conflict. > > > _Russian media and local Telegram channels reported deliberate acts of arson against military commissariats in three Moscow Oblast settlements – Omsk, Volgograd, Ryazan Oblast, and Khanty-Mansi Autonomous District between May 4 and May 18._ > > > > _Ukrainian General Staff main operations deputy chief Oleksiy Gromov said that there were at least 12 cases of deliberate arson against military commissariats in total and five last week._ > > > > _Russian officials caught two 16-year-olds in the act in one Moscow Oblast settlement, which suggests that Russian citizens are likely responsible for the attacks on military commissariats._ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5831 "2022-05-19T23:28:10Z")
‘The enemy of my enemy is my friend.’ ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5832 "2022-05-19T23:32:48Z")
The Spartan state was one of the most fascistic and totalitarian entities the world has ever seen, and the Spartans were disliked by other Greeks. Yet they fought together to repel the Persian invaders. When the invasion was defeated, they could go back to being enemies again. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5833 "2022-05-19T23:33:24Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > ‘The enemy of my enemy is my friend.’ Maxim 29: The enemy of my enemy is my enemy’s enemy. No more. No less. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5834 "2022-05-20T00:10:10Z")
Dammit, you beat me by 30 minutes!! But it bears repeating, to many people forget this addendum and make assumptions/plans based on their new ‘friends’. See Afghanistan and Iraq for further lessons. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5835 "2022-05-20T00:52:38Z")
Don’t get me wrong. My enemy is still my enemy. But if he’s fighting my enemy, he can be a ‘friend’ for as long as needed. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5836 "2022-05-20T01:00:25Z")
Heroes come in all ages and walks of life. Yuliia Paievska helped train Ukraine’s volunteer medics. She participated in the Invictus Games and was given a camera last year to film a Netflix documentary. She used it to document her experiences as a medic in Mariupol. She smuggled out a data card with 256 gigabytes of bodycam video and gave to AP Journalists. Yuliia was captured by the Russians the next day. It sounds like a very powerful documentary may come from this footage. I hope it airs on Netflix. The video shows Yuliia compassionately treating Ukrainians and Russian soldiers. She was shown on tv bruised and battered after her arrest. > [@](#): > > The video is an intimate record from Feb. 6 to March 10 of a city under siege that has now become a worldwide symbol of the Russian invasion and Ukrainian resistance. In it, Taira is a whirlwind of energy and grief, recording the death of a child and the treatment of wounded soldiers from both sides. [https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Captive-medic-s-bodycam-shows-firsthand-horror-17183644.php#photo-22495217](https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Captive-medic-s-bodycam-shows-firsthand-horror-17183644.php#photo-22495217) > **[A Ukrainian medic recorded harrowing scenes in Mariupol on a tiny bodycam....](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-medic-taira-bodycam-video-mariupol-captive/#app)** > > A Ukrainian medic recorded her time in Mariupol on a tiny data card, which was smuggled out to the world in a tampon. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5837 "2022-05-20T10:07:36Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > What are ‘top defence officials’? Top. Men. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5838 "2022-05-20T12:43:52Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > he says that “in the very near future, all that will remain of the [American-provided M777 howitzers] will be memories” after they are targeted by Russian military forces. This was accompanied by video of a Russian strike failing to hit a M777 howitzer. Turns out there’s a good chance the [video’s a fake](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wr9jCpacVM), and uses several unrelated videos spliced together to fit a narrative. But yeah, Mikhail clearly got a ‘talking to’ earlier this week. ---
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5839 "2022-05-20T13:51:53Z")
> **[Struggling in Ukraine, Russia paves way to sign up over-40s for army](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-parliament-consider-allowing-over-40s-sign-up-military-2022-05-20/)** > > In a sign of Russia's urgent need to bolster its war effort in Ukraine, parliament said on Friday it would consider a bill to allow Russians over 40 and foreigners over 30 to sign up for the military. Looks like Russia is mobilizing older folks in recognition of their loses. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5840 "2022-05-20T14:45:38Z")
Somehow I don’t think that’s going to work out all that well. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5841 "2022-05-20T14:57:51Z")
Video on Twitter: > From the [Yahoo article](https://www.yahoo.com/news/videos-show-russian-soldiers-leading-012533753.html): > The security camera footage showed a group of nine Ukrainians hunched over, holding the pants of the person in front of them and some with their hands placed over their heads, crossing a street in a single file. Two Russian soldiers with guns can be seen at the front and back of the group, directing the line. > > Eight witnesses told The Times the captives were then taken behind an office building, gunshots were heard, and the group did not reappear. > > Additional drone footage obtained by The Times confirmed the witness accounts, showing the groups’ bodies beside an office building as Russian soldiers stood over them. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5842 "2022-05-20T14:59:37Z")
> **[BMPT Terminator](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMPT_Terminator)** > > The BMPT "Terminator" (Боевая машина поддержки танков - Tank Support Fighting Vehicle) is an armored fighting vehicle (AFV), designed and manufactured by the Russian company Uralvagonzavod. This vehicle was designed for supporting tanks and other AFVs in urban areas. The BMPT is unofficially named the "Terminator" by the manufacturers. It is heavily armed and armored to survive in urban combat. The AFV is armed with four 9M120 Ataka missile launchers, two 30 mm 2A42 autocannons, two AG-17D gre > four [9M120 Ataka](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M120_Ataka) missile launchers, two 30 mm [2A42](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2A42) autocannons, two [AG-17D](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGS-17) grenade launchers, and one coaxial 7.62 mm [PKTM](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PKTM) machine gun. That sounds very impressive to this absolute non-expert. But it also sounds like an awful lot of varying ammunition to supply and aren’t the Russians having some issues with that? ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5843 "2022-05-20T15:30:41Z")
> [@naita](#): > > That sounds very impressive to this absolute non-expert. But it also sounds like an awful lot of varying ammunition to supply and aren’t the Russians having some issues with that? For all the logistics challenges the Russians face supplying their own weapons platforms, the Ukrainians have it far worse, owing to them receiving donated weapons and equipment from a host of countries; some using NATO standard, and others Russian gear. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5844 "2022-05-21T02:58:29Z")
Intense fighting around Donetsk. Russian forces still trying to bridge Severskyi Donets River. Getting troops across is a priority to take Severodonetsk. Imho It’s hard to tell if the Ukrainians are holding back forces or just hanging on. The Russians are focusing a lot of troops into a small area. The fighting isn’t getting a lot of press coverage. May 20 Institute Study of War > [@](#): > > **Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine** > > **Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas)** > > Russian forces conducted unspecified offensive operations in the direction of Slovyansk but did not make any confirmed advances on May 20.[ii] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops are attempting to erect a pontoon bridge over the Severskyi Donets River in the vicinity of Yaremivka, about 25 kilometers southeast of Izyum in the direction of Slovyansk.[iii] Russian forces additionally conducted artillery strikes on Dovhenke and Dolyna, both southeast of Izyum heading towards Slovyansk.[iv] > > Russian forces reportedly intensified efforts to break through Ukrainian defenses around Popasna in order to push towards Severodonetsk from the south on May 20. Pro-Russian news sources reported that Russian forces made advances through Ukrainian lines of defense in three directions. Russian Airborne (VDV) forces reportedly took control of Volodymirivka and Lypove, and broke through Ukrainian defenses in Komyshuvakha, all north of Popasna.[v] Troops of the Russian ”Wagner” Private Military Company reportedly took control of Trypillya and Vyskrivka to the west of Popasna.[vi] Ukrainian sources noted that offensive operations are on-going in Vyskrivka.[vii] Russian forces additionally reportedly took control of Troitske, south of Popasna.[viii] Such reports are consistent with Ukrainian General Staff statements that the Russian grouping around Popasna is trying to take new frontiers in the area.[ix] NASA’s Fire Information for Resource Management (FIRMS) data, however, does not show a concentration of fires in this area, which may suggest that the Russian sources are exaggerating the scale or significance of the attacks, although the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in this case. The purported encirclement of the Popasna area may be an effort to break through Ukrainian defenses in order to provide support for the on-going battle for Severodonetsk, where Russian troops are making marginal gains and reportedly took control of Shchedryshcheve and Syrotne, just north of Severodonetsk.[xi] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=288) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=290)