# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/561 "2022-02-28T16:49:24Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The news here is saying that the Russians are demanding that Ukraine be neutral and demilitarized. That sounds like the demand that Ukraine gives up nukes. _You’ll be protected._ A demilitarized Ukraine wouldn’t have any autonomy. It’s ironic a lot of countries are pledging defensive weapon shipments to Ukraine. They’ll soon be more militarized than ever. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/562 "2022-02-28T16:54:57Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Ukraine be neutral and demilitarized Is that Russian for “ripe for the plucking”? No one with half a brain in their head would agree to this after what’s happened this last week. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/563 "2022-02-28T16:55:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The news here is saying that the Russians are demanding that Ukraine be neutral and demilitarized. That’s been their demand all along, so no real change. I haven’t seen all of their demands or even all of Ukraine’s demands, so just broadly speaking their positions haven’t really changed much, if any. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/564 "2022-02-28T17:07:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Russians are demanding that Ukraine be neutral and demilitarized. Putin (along with his fellow thug Lukashenko) has just proven that what Ukraine needs is the exact opposite – a strong military to protect itself against ruthless tyrants, preferably bolstered by membership in NATO. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/565 "2022-02-28T18:20:28Z")
I’m impressed that countries around the world are imposing SWIFT sanctions. Turkey is limiting access to the Black Sea. Weapons and humanitarian Aid packages are pledged. Even international football is banning the Russians. 😉 These are steps far beyond what was planned even a week ago. The Ruble has dropped 30% against the dollar Russia can’t be allowed to only withdraw to the border. It’s not acceptable to have a large buildup ready to strike again. Imho the International community has to keep the pressure on until Russian forces return to their home bases. I’d like to see a signed non-aggression treaty. Verbal promises aren’t enough. Putin said for months that Russia wouldn’t attack. > [@](#): > > Fifa and Uefa have acted in unison to suspend Russian teams from international football competition. > **[Russia's ruble worth less than 1 cent after West tightens sanctions](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ukraine-ruble-sanctions/)** > > A sharp fall in Russia's currency could cause inflation in the country to surge and strain its financial system. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/566 "2022-02-28T18:24:58Z")
For those familiar with the YouTuber, “Bald and Bankrupt,” I’d like to recommend his two latest videos: 18m58s [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/f2rBUvWKSZw/maxresdefault.jpg "Solo Along The Ukrainian-Russian Border ( One Day Before Invasion )") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2rBUvWKSZw) 19m46s: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/hzBxFH_hEwA/maxresdefault.jpg "Leaving Kyiv On A Refugee Train 🇺🇦") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzBxFH_hEwA) ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/567 "2022-02-28T18:55:35Z")
> **[‘The damage is done’: Russians face economic point of no return](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/28/the-damage-is-done-russians-face-economic-point-of-no-return)** > > Shoppers and business people express despair and disillusion as sanctions cause run on rouble The sanctions are having a devastating effect already. Everyone is being affected, from oligarchs and top business people down to ordinary people in the street. There seems to be a general sense of crisis and despair. How much longer can Putin last? > Another business owner with hundreds of employees in the food and beverage and tourism industries felt that he was completely in the dark about the future under Vladimir Putin. > > “We have no fucking clue what he will do next,” he said. “No one in the business community has a clue any more. Everyone is so depressed. I have experienced so many economic crises here, the pandemic being the latest. > > “But there was always a reason to keep on fighting for your business,” he said. “Now, I don’t see the light at the end of the tunnel any more. Even if peace is achieved, the damage is done. How do we reverse it?” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/568 "2022-02-28T19:02:25Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > The news here is saying that the Russians are demanding that Ukraine be neutral and demilitarized. And what guarantees are in place to secure Ukrainian sovereignty if they’re demilitarized and living next door to the country that just invaded them? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/569 "2022-02-28T19:03:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Even international football is banning the Russians. 😉 And international chess. I keep reading reports that Belarus is about to send troops to Ukraine. I hope they face the same treatment Russia is getting in the international community. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/570 "2022-02-28T19:08:56Z")
The US is already targeting Belarus’s defense and financial sectors, and I doubt we are the only ones. They will get hammered, especially on the nuclear aspect. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/571 "2022-02-28T19:11:09Z")
From all my reading so far, Russian willingness (or unwillingness) to fight may be a crucial factor in their struggles so far. If many or most Russian soldiers and officers see this war as immoral and/or foolish, that could make victory nigh-impossible. We’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/572 "2022-02-28T19:11:20Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > And what guarantees are in place to secure Ukrainian sovereignty if they’re demilitarized and living next door to the country that just invaded them? Fear of becoming the subject of an _Empire Strikes Back_ meme? [![](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/679/cCVqHor.png) ](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/679/cCVqHor.png) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/573 "2022-02-28T19:11:27Z")
> [@XT](#): > > For a while, they have been pushing the idea of an independent, combined European military. I think the French have really questioned the US’s commitment to European defense, and, rightfully they feel that they should have the ability to defend themselves without the US. I don’t think that, to this point, they have gotten a lot of traction outside of France for a unified European military, and not sure how it would work if it happened, They did form the [Franco-German brigade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco-German_Brigade) in the [Eurocorps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocorps). Which was sort of a Euroforce trial balloon that didn’t get all that far, but still is something. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/574 "2022-02-28T19:25:45Z")
> [@XT](#): > > The US is already targeting Belarus’s defense and financial sectors, and I doubt we are the only ones. They will get hammered, especially on the nuclear aspect. I am hoping both Russia and Belarus are bearing the brunt of cyber attacks unheard of. Our guys should be as good as theirs are and lack of news does not mean lack of action. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/575 "2022-02-28T19:32:15Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > For those familiar with the YouTuber, “Bald and Bankrupt,” I’d like to recommend his two latest videos: Thank you for posting. I got a better understanding of the people and countryside. The lack of people in the first video was unsettling. The fear of war was already keeping people inside. The trains were packed the next day. Everyone is trying to get out. Hope people in the border village are ok. I imagine they offered no resistance and there was no fighting. There wasn’t anything of value there but mud. ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/576 "2022-02-28T19:43:05Z")
When even Switzerland comes out against you, you know you’re in the wrong. I am encouraged to see the wide support for Ukraine even from non-NATO countries. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/577 "2022-02-28T20:28:25Z")
Now I would like to see a concerted effort to reach the Russian public – to try to drive a wedge, however small, between it and the Kremlin. To tell them, “All these measures we’re taking are not anti-Russia but anti-aggression. And we look forward to the day that the Russian state rejoins the community of civilized nations.” ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/578 "2022-02-28T20:39:57Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > Now I would like to see a concerted effort to reach the Russian public They all have the Internet. They know what’s going on, and like us it’s colored by their nationalistic biases. Throwing Western propaganda on top of that just makes it harder for Russians to form rational opinions that also benefit the West. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/579 "2022-02-28T20:48:46Z")
I’m really not sure _what_ they know, or if we can generalize about that. And what should be expressed to them is the opposite of nationalistic propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/580 "2022-02-28T20:49:18Z")
No need to propagandize. Just stream [_Come and See_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_and_See) endlessly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=30)