# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 293
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5905 "2022-05-24T18:49:39Z")
The Wikipedia page for the Switchblade seems to indicate that the warhead isn’t specifically designed for anti-armor, so I suspect in that video they were going for the dismount crew or whomever the unprotected personnel were. (Assuming that was a Switchblade 300. 600s can have an anti-armor warhead, apparently.) > **[AeroVironment Switchblade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AeroVironment_Switchblade)** > > The AeroVironment Switchblade is a miniature loitering munition designed by AeroVironment and used by several branches of the United States military. Small enough to fit in a backpack, the Switchblade launches from a tube, flies to the target area, and crashes into its target while detonating its explosive warhead. The name Switchblade comes from the way the spring-loaded wings are folded up inside a tube and flip out once released. > Introduced in 2011, the original Switchblade was rebranded the ... > [@](#): > > Its warhead has an explosive charge equivalent to a 40mm grenade to destroy light armored vehicles and personnel. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2022, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5906 "2022-05-24T19:00:35Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > The Wikipedia page for the Switchblade seems to indicate that the warhead isn’t specifically designed for anti-armor, so I suspect in that video they were going for the dismount crew or whomever the unprotected personnel were. > > (Assuming that was a Switchblade 300. 600s can have an anti-armor warhead, apparently.) If it was a 300 (anti-personnel) this would be a good use of the munition, as a grenade exploding in that close of proximity to the tank crewmen would almost certainly be a kill or incapacitation. Either way, the loss of two skilled Russian tank crewmen is a loss they can’t quickly replace. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2022, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5907 "2022-05-24T19:24:56Z")
Ukraine Weapons Tracker, which is good at this sort of thing, [identifies it as a Switchblade 300](https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1529003245296922627). I’m not sure whether the anti-armor Swichblade 600 is in Ukraine yet. This seems like a good example of what loitering munitions could do. They are able to fly around, or loiter, at the target area for a while until a target opportunity presents itself, such as a tank crew standing exposed on the top of a tank. It’s difficult to tell, but there could be up to four people on the tank (although T-72 has crew of only three due to the autoloader). ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5908 "2022-05-24T20:03:41Z")
It is a dangerous time in the eastern Donbas. The Russian offensive there, spearheaded by elite units, is making some slow progress. Ukrainian forces in the Sievierodonetsk area face the risk of encirclement. [![](https://i.imgur.com/xSvqHCK.png) ](https://i.imgur.com/xSvqHCK.png) _Map: [Liveuamap](https://liveuamap.com/)_ ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5909 "2022-05-24T20:06:04Z")
Whoops. 😉 > [@](#): > > According to Forbes, Russia used to have hundreds of these things that were built decades ago but now only have about 40-50 in service. Their strengths are that they have immense power, “giant mortars belt out gigantic 288-pound F864 shells more akin in effect to air-dropped bombs out to a range of 6 miles at a stately maximum fire rate of one round per minute.” And “laser-guided rounds, 3B11 nuclear shells, and 3O8 ‘Nerpa’ rocket-assisted cargo shells with a maximum range of 12 miles that can release a hail of cluster bomblets.” Originally posted on Forbes > **[Russian Reporter Helpfully Gives Exact Location For 2S4 Tyulpan Shelling...](https://crooksandliars.com/2022/05/russian-reporter-helpfully-gives-exact)** > > As Aleksandr ‘Sasha’ Kots excitedly reported on the immense destructive power of Russia's vaunted 2S4 Tyulpan, he was also telling Ukrainian forces their exact location. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2022, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5910 "2022-05-24T21:57:30Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Major General Kanamat Botashev has become the highest-ranking Russian pilot to be killed in the skies over Ukraine, A retired officer? Are they accepting volunteers because of a lack of experienced pilots? And he was forced to retire because he crashed a fighter! There’s some really strange crap in this war. > [@MikeF](#): > > On NPR this morning they were talking about the number of Russian aircraft purportedly lost so far. I think the number was 200+. [This](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/05/04/uptick-in-combat-missions-signals-changing-role-for-russias-air-force-in-ukraine-a77539) (early May) links to [Oryx](https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html) totals: > The Ukrainians have destroyed at least 26 Russian combat aircraft and 39 helicopters since the beginning of the invasion, according to Oryx, an intelligence blog that tracks Russia’s military losses using open source analysis. The same source also says this: > Russian air sorties are up over 150%, to about 300 a day, since the shift to the east, according to Sam Cranny-Evans, a military analyst at Britain’s Royal United Services Institute think tank. This surprises me because I had got the idea from reports that the Russians were barely using their aircraft. Three hundred sorties is a lot for this war, especially since they are all in the eastern zone. And apparently it’s almost all low flights and dumb bombs. Low flying bombers are harder to hit with shoulder fired weapons because of the difficulty in getting a lock on them in the short time you can see them. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2022, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5911 "2022-05-24T23:20:25Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > the crew was outside, so presumably they are no more, which disables the tank until they can be replaced. To say nothing of morale. “What’s that red splotch?” “Nothing that concerns you. Get in and drive.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2022, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5912 "2022-05-24T23:54:12Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > A retired officer? Are they accepting volunteers because of a lack of experienced pilots? And he was forced to retire because he crashed a fighter! There’s some really strange crap in this war. I know experience counts for something, but a _63-year-old_ fighter pilot? What in blazes? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2022, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5913 "2022-05-24T23:59:41Z")
I mean, that’s even older than Tom Cruise! ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5914 "2022-05-25T00:02:52Z")
Get off my lawn… ‘fires missle’ ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5915 "2022-05-25T08:41:41Z")
There was talk on Twitter that he had joined the Wagner group after being fired from the Airforce after ‘borrowing’ a plane and crashing it doing acrobatics. So either the Wagner Group now has an air force, or it’s more closely integrated with the military. I thought leaving your job and then coming back the following week working for a contractor was a purely Western idea. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5916 "2022-05-25T17:54:40Z")
Severodonetsk appears to be on the brink of becoming encircled by Russian forces. [Severodonetsk: Battle for key road as fighting reaches Ukraine city - BBC News](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61578156) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5917 "2022-05-25T20:50:40Z")
I’m very confused. A couple weeks ago I saw reports the Tanks and artillery from Britain,US, Germany etc.were donated to Ukraine. The biggest tank battles since WWII were predicted. It seems Ukraine is still fighting a hit and run war. They knock out a few tanks or shoot down a helicopter. That’s impressive but it’s not enough when Russia is focusing nearly all their fire power in a small area. I’m concerned we’re propping them up just enough to encourage them to fight and die. I reluctantly agree with the quoted statements. Unless NATO sends advisors to give Ukraine a wqual chance in this war. Putin is bringing in experienced Syrian vets and the Wagner group. NATO has to respond before theres a critical food shortage. Guardian blog > [@](#): > > Der Spiegel after a plane brief with Scholz on his war goals.“Victory for Ukraine does not seem to be an option. The strategy could be called active waiting. The Germans are cautiously supplying arms, participating in boycotts & waiting for Putin to say his war goals are reached” > [@](#): > > Ukrainian MP **Anastasia Radina** has been at the World Economic Forum in Davos, and has spoken to Reuters. She told reporters western countries such as Germany must overcome reluctance to supply [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) with modern weapons as Kyiv risks running out of stocks. She said: > > > We have only one choice, and this is to receive modern Nato-style weaponry because we cannot win the war with the Soviet style weaponry that we have. What [the Russians] are doing is waiting for us to run out of weapons or (the) collective west to be less united and more preoccupied with their own problems. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5918 "2022-05-25T20:55:29Z")
What was the point of Biden signing Lend-Lease, and Congress passing it, if the U.S. wasn’t going to give Ukraine a whole boatload more weapons? It’s been weeks and the U.S. has only given 18 more howitzers and that was all. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5919 "2022-05-25T21:19:20Z")
Is it true defenders usually have the advantage? Letting Russia take Sievierodonetsk could be permanent. It would be difficult for Ukraine to take it back. Now is when NATO needs to act. The world is watching. Weakness isn’t acceptable. > [@](#): > > ## Nato ‘doing literally nothing’ to stop Russia, says Ukraine > > **Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, accused Nato of “doing literally nothing” in the face of Russia’s invasion of his country.** > > Kuleba praised the EU for its “revolutionary” decisions to back Kyiv but said the Nato military alliance had been “completely sidelined”. > > Speaking at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Kuleba said: > > > Nato as an alliance, as an institution, is completely sidelined and doing literally nothing. I’m sorry to say it. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5920 "2022-05-25T21:42:09Z")
Ukraine are hoping to [mobilize up to a million people](https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1525215553408860161) to fight the Russian invaders. The Ukrainian military has shifted in recent years from a Soviet mindset to a NATO mindset, so I expect they are doing things properly and spending some time training these recruits to make them a viable fighting force, unlike what the Russians are doing with the people they’ve conscripted in occupied areas of the Donbas, who are sent into battle like lambs to the slaughter. I expect we are weeks or months away from the Ukrainians being able to unleash their full potential on the battlefield. When that happens, the possibilities for wider-scale Ukrainian counterattacks will increase. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5921 "2022-05-25T21:47:13Z")
It’s not within NATO’s remit to get involved in this. NATO is about member states defending each other if one of them is attacked, and Ukraine is not a member state. Therefore it’s down to individual countries and other entities, like the EU, to get involved. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5922 "2022-05-25T21:49:32Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Is it true defenders usually have the advantage? Yes. Though, if an attacker _does_ successfully attack a position and is now the defender, there is a _chance_ that the position will be easier to retake if 1) the defenses that were in place have been destroyed as part of the successful attack, 2) the attackers have lost a lot of their own ability during the attack, and 3) the new attackers are fully supplied and fresh. I’m not saying that any of those factors would be at play here - Russia could quickly fix up the fortifications and swap out guys with fresh troops - just that, in theory, it _may_ be easier to retake a position than it was to have taken it in the first case. And if so, that’s going to be at the soonest possible moment after the taking. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5923 "2022-05-25T22:01:42Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It seems Ukraine is still fighting a hit and run war. They knock out a few tanks or shoot down a helicopter. That’s impressive but it’s not enough when Russia is focusing nearly all their fire power in a small area. They might be flubbing it - I can’t say - but, in theory, they could be doing this on purpose, for strategic reasons. E.g.: 1. To get Russia to _think_ that this is their general pattern, and throw them off for when they switch direction. 2. To use as few resources as possible, to keep Russia busy, while they prepare more troops with better equipment and technique. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2022, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5924 "2022-05-25T22:19:46Z")
The “We can’t provide rocket artillery or that to Ukraine because it would provoke Russia” argument seems like the weirdest hair-splitting. As someone else pointed out, the frog has already been heated in the pan up to 50 degrees Celsius, are we really thinking that one more degree Celsius is going to be the decisive difference? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=292) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=294)