# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 296
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5965 "2022-05-28T10:45:39Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Insiders think the West’s attention and support will dry up. Making another attack on the Ukrainian government possible. I think (or at least, I hope) that there’s a big difference between the war in Ukraine falling off the headlines due to the public’s usual short attention span, and the attention and support of NATO and US leadership. It was either Biden or the Defense Secretary who recently said that the US “will move heaven and earth” to support Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5966 "2022-05-28T13:00:19Z")
The military industrial complex will move to make sure that we continue to supply weapons to Ukraine. And, of course, to top off our stockpiles from which the weapons have been taken. Arsenal of democracy and all that. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5967 "2022-05-28T13:33:12Z")
So, in your opinion, what’s the appropriate alternative? ISTM that Russia is visiting a NAZI Germany blitzkrieg kind of horror upon Ukraine. In the interest of not supporting the “military industrial complex”, do we just stand by and let it happen? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5968 "2022-05-28T13:44:48Z")
Yeah, that really doesn’t seem like a good reason to not do it. In this case, it seems like that’s a good thing in every way. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5969 "2022-05-28T14:28:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I saw a longer version earlier today. Insiders think the West’s attention and support will dry up. Making another attack on the Ukrainian government possible. The “west” knows that after Ukraine Russia has to go after Poland and direct conflict against NATO. They also know Russia’s conventional forces would be utterly outmatched and destroyed almost instantly. This is extremely scary because it leads to escalation, probably nuclear war. We are not all that interested in saving Ukraine, but we sure as hell want them to hold of the Russians as long as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5970 "2022-05-28T14:55:48Z")
It’s just a jaded observation that for some folks, war is good for business. Not a judgement about whether the cause is just or not. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5971 "2022-05-28T19:17:19Z")
The land is so flat and barren that you could see a man walking from a half a mile. (binoculars) Tanks must stand out even farther. I can see why casualties are high. > **[Inside the trenches: CNN joins Ukraine's army on the front lines | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/05/26/ukraine-army-front-lines-western-weapons-lead-npw-pkg-vpx.cnn)** > > CNN's Nick Paton Walsh goes to the Ukrainian front lines as local soldiers test new weapons delivered from the West. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5972 "2022-05-28T19:22:06Z")
Putin’s new plan to win the war: send in the old men. > **[Russia scraps age limit for new troops in Ukraine push](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61619638)** > > Russia's military says it needs older recruits skilled in hi-tech weapons and other specialisms. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5973 "2022-05-28T19:43:59Z")
A bit concerned by the pushes Russia has been making. While Russia is taking big losses, so is Ukraine, and Russia has more troops. Germany, France, and Italy aren’t projecting the unity and strength that the UK or the US are. I’m not saying it’s likely, but I do fear an agreement with conceding land, once food and energy pain increase, followed by a renewed push once Russia regroups. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5974 "2022-05-28T19:56:41Z")
“specialisms”? Come on, Beeb, you are supposed to know English. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5975 "2022-05-28T20:19:46Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Putin’s new plan to win the war: send in the old men. And the historical parallels continue. Next, he needs to conscript the young adolescents… ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5976 "2022-05-28T22:11:37Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Putin’s new plan to win the war: send in the old men. > > [Russia scraps age limit for new troops in Ukraine push](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61619638) When various NATO countries started sending supplies to Urkaine, my wife asked me if I was eligible to be drafted. I’m 46, so I laughed and answered, “If they’re drafting my old ass then we’re in deep, deep trouble.” If Russia wants to bring in old men, they’re in deep, deep trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5977 "2022-05-28T23:35:35Z")
It actually makes sense to open up the age bracket. The older men may already have the training to operate the tanks pulled out of storage. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5978 "2022-05-29T00:15:57Z")
Yes, I’m sure the extremely powerful military-industrial complex will get bored of making shit tons of money with no risk to American troops. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5979 "2022-05-29T03:03:07Z")
This is an unusually direct statement from ISW analysts. Its interesting ISW feels Severodonetsk is not a high value strategic target. Russia is needlessly expending a lot of resources and soldiers. I guess that could eventually work to Ukraine’s advantage. Russia will come out of this with a weaker force and limited economic assets from Severodonetsk. Have to see how it plays out. Bolding is from ISW > [@](#): > > **The Russian invasion of Ukraine that aimed to seize and occupy the entire country has become a desperate and bloody offensive to capture a single city in the east while defending important but limited gains in the south and east.** Ukraine has twice forced Putin to define down his military objectives. Ukraine defeated Russia in the Battle of Kyiv, forcing Putin to reduce his subsequent military objectives to seizing Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts in eastern Ukraine. Ukraine stopped him from achieving that aim as well, forcing him to focus on completing the seizure of Luhansk Oblast alone. Putin is now hurling men and munitions at the last remaining major population center in that oblast, Severodonetsk, as if taking it would win the war for the Kremlin. He is wrong. **When the Battle of Severodonetsk ends, regardless of which side holds the city, the Russian offensive at the operational and strategic levels will likely have culminated, giving Ukraine the chance to restart its operational-level counteroffensives to push Russian forces back.** > **Russian forces are assaulting Severdonetsk even though they have not yet encircled it.** They are making territorial gains and may succeed in taking the city and areas further west. The Ukrainian military is facing the most serious challenge it has encountered since the isolation of the Azovstal Plant in Mariupol and may well suffer a significant tactical defeat in the coming days if Severodonetsk falls, although such an outcome is by no means certain, and the Russian attacks may well stall again. > **The Russians are paying a price for their current tactical success that is out of proportion to any real operational or strategic benefit they can hope to receive.** Severodonetsk itself is important at this stage in the war primarily because it is the last significant population center in Luhansk Oblast that the Russians do not control. Seizing it will let Moscow declare that it has secured Luhansk Oblast fully but will give Russia no other significant military or economic benefit. > **[Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-28)** > > Russian President Vladimir Putin is inflicting unspeakable suffering on Ukrainians and demanding horrible sacrifices of his own people in an effort to seize a city that does not merit the cost, even for him. > The Russian invasion of Ukraine that aimed... ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5980 "2022-05-29T05:32:55Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > A bit concerned by the pushes Russia has been making. While Russia is taking big losses, so is Ukraine, and Russia has more troops. Germany, France, and Italy aren’t projecting the unity and strength that the UK or the US are. I’m not saying it’s likely, but I do fear an agreement with conceding land, once food and energy pain increase, followed by a renewed push once Russia regroups. Russia is getting close to the bottom of the barrel. It’s not there yet–the barrel is big. But the strategic outlook is getting worse and worse. > **[To Replenish Its Army In Ukraine, Russia Plans To Strip Its Training Units....](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/05/28/to-replenish-its-army-in-ukraine-russia-plans-to-strip-its-training-units-it-can-only-do-this-once/)** > > Russia can replenish its army in Ukraine, restoring it roughly to the numerical strength—if not the technological sophistication—it possessed on day one of the wider war. But it can only replenish the army once. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5981 "2022-05-29T05:47:49Z")
As others pointed out, if the United States was willing to spend trillions in Iraq and Afghanistan for military interventions, for 20 years, that were far less justified than helping out Ukraine, there’s no reason the US should bail out on Ukraine within less than a year, at a tiny fraction of the cost of Iraq/Afghanistan, for a war that is totally legit-justified for Ukraine and its western allies to wage. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5982 "2022-05-29T06:03:00Z")
Man, as that article basically states, if you lose your experienced trainers, you lose your ability to regenerate an army. That’s not the absolute bottom of the barrel, but if you scrape further it really will probably become an existential war for you. And remember, this is an invasion of choice. The only real danger to Russia is the one they present to themselves. Putin could come up with another silly lie and stop hollowing out his remaining military force at pretty much any time. He’s too stupid or too mad to stop himself at this point, and that kind of makes me shiver inside. And yeah, @Velocity Ukraine is offering the deal of “You supply us weapons, and we will kill and die so Russia doesn’t decide they need to invade a NATO country next.” Whether or not the trillions spent in Afghanistan (maybe) or Iraq (almost certainly not) were worth it. Ukraine is offering us an amazing bargain. We’d be insane to not support them enough to at least push the Russians back to their borders and hammer them on their side of the border if the were dumb enough to build up on the borders of Ukraine again. So, I’m pretty much thinking this is going to drag on long enough that Ukraine might as well get any systems they’re willing to receive, get trained on and maintain with the west’s support. At the very least, start supplying them with some generation of F-16. It’s not the best at anything, but it’s OK at most everything. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5983 "2022-05-29T07:00:30Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > @Velocity Ukraine is offering the deal of “You supply us weapons, and we will kill and die so Russia doesn’t decide they need to invade a NATO country next.” I don’t know if Ukraine unilaterally offered this, but it’s certainly what the West put on the table, and Ukraine has accepted, grudgingly or not. The ugliness of realpolitik laid bare. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Duality](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.duality/32/4098_2.png) [@Mr.Duality](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Duality)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/5984 "2022-05-29T08:14:31Z")
Most of the older guys could probably benefit from losing weight, so they will get healthier from not being fed well. Those field rations that expired 10 years ago will be good for them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=295) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=297)