# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 298
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6005 "2022-06-01T03:42:30Z")
**Finally** They got off the pot. I don’t want to even speculate on the number of deaths in the past 2 weeks while this decision was made. Ukraine has agreed not to fire into Russia. Imho that can be controlled by supplying missiles on a schedule. The scheduled supplies stops if the missiles are misused. > **[Russians reach centre of Ukraine industrial city; U.S. to give Kyiv advanced...](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-agrees-send-advanced-rockets-ukraine-2022-06-01/)** > > Russian forces fought their way into the centre of Ukraine's industrial city of Sievierodonetsk on Wednesday, edging closer to claiming a big prize in their offensive in the eastern Donbas region. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6006 "2022-06-01T05:01:06Z")
I’ve read a lot of the troops in Kherson are poorly equipped Russian loyalists. Ukraine may have success with counter attacks while the Russian troops are busy taking Severodonetsk. ISW May 31 > [@](#): > > **Moscow’s concentration on seizing Severodonetsk and Donbas generally continues to create vulnerabilities for Russia in Ukraine’s vital Kherson Oblast, where Ukrainian counter-offensives continue.** Kherson is critical terrain because it is the only area of Ukraine in which Russian forces hold ground on the west bank of the Dnipro River. If Russia is able to retain a strong lodgment in Kherson when fighting stops it will be in a very strong position from which to launch a future invasion. If Ukraine regains Kherson, on the other hand, Ukraine will be in a much stronger position to defend itself against future Russian attack. This strategic calculus should in principle lead Russia to allocate sufficient combat power to hold Kherson. But Russian President Vladimir Putin has chosen instead to concentrate all the forces and resources that can be scraped together in a desperate and bloody push to seize areas of eastern Ukraine that will give him largely symbolic gains. Continuing successful Ukrainian counter-offensives in Kherson indicate that Ukraine’s commanders recognize these realities and are taking advantage of the vulnerabilities that Putin’s decisions have created. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6007 "2022-06-01T09:21:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Aside: Your comment made me think of the Cessna 172 Skyhawk. It’s not very fast, but it’s fast enough. It doesn’t carry a lot of weight, but it carries enough. It doesn’t have a great range, but it’ll go for four hours, which is enough. I always say that the Skyhawk is the most-successful aircraft ever made because, while it’s not particularly good at anything, it’s good enough at everything. Another aside: my friend who owned a Cessna 172, said it was a very forgiving aircraft. I flew with him many times, and he could plop that thing down at the end of the runway (“on the stripes”–have I got my nomenclature right, Johnny?), and decelerate enough to take the first taxiway. Or we’d do “touch-and-gos,” then another go-round, then a final touchdown. That little aircraft could take almost anything, because it was good enough at everything. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6008 "2022-06-01T14:05:04Z")
Some information on the M142 Himars. The range can be controlled by the rocket pod that is supplied. My curiosity naturally asks if the higher range missiles can be supplied by other countries? Providing the US deniability? _Biden_ is only giving Ukraine short range missles. I wouldn’t be surprised if a few ATACMS quietly cross the border with other supplies. It won’t be directly traceable to the US. > [@](#): > > The M142 Himars system (High Mobility Artillery Rocket System) is a modernised, lighter and more agile wheel-mounted version of the track-mounted M270 MLRS developed in the 1970s for US and allied forces. > > The Himars that Washington is providing to Ukraine will have a range of about 50 miles (80km), a US official told reporters. > > Himars units carry one preloaded pod of six 227mm guided missiles (the M270 carries two pods), or one large pod loaded with an Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) tactical missile. The US will not supply Ukraine with the ATACMS, which has a range of 300km. > > With a small crew, the Himars can remove a spent pod and load a fresh one in minutes, without other vehicles helping. The crews will require some training. > **[Himars: what are the advanced rockets US is sending Ukraine?](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/01/himars-what-are-the-advanced-rockets-us-is-sending-ukraine)** > > High Mobility Artillery Rocket System can hit Russian targets up to 50 miles (80km) away, helping to ‘even the playing field’ ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6009 "2022-06-01T15:41:24Z")
It seems Russian cities and other sites are now protected against Ukrainian missile attacks. Protected not by the Russian government, but by the American one. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6010 "2022-06-01T15:45:25Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > When the Battle of Severodonetsk ends, regardless of which side holds the city, the Russian offensive at the operational and strategic levels will likely have culminated, giving Ukraine the chance to restart its operational-level counteroffensives to push Russian forces back. In the military art, “culmination point” has a special meaning. It is the point where one side or the other is unable to continue. It is the moment of total exhaustion. Battles are won at this moment when one side can continue and the other cannot. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6011 "2022-06-01T15:46:11Z")
Did Ukraine agree not to attack Russian cities at all, or did Ukraine agree not to attack Russian cities with the specific missiles the US is sending? ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6012 "2022-06-01T16:12:41Z")
> [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](#): > > It seems Russian cities and other sites are now protected against Ukrainian missile attacks. Protected not by the Russian government, but by the American one. I wonder what exactly was promised. That Ukraine won’t attack Russian territory with those particular weapons, or that Ukraine won’t attack Russian territory at all? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6013 "2022-06-01T16:52:47Z")
Official Russian tv just announced that the next target is Poland. > **[Kremlin TV Names the Country Putin Will Invade Next](https://www.yahoo.com/news/kremlin-tv-names-country-putin-013530205.html)** > > And they don’t stop there, suggesting Britain and the U.S. would be targeted in a looming WWIII. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6014 "2022-06-01T16:56:26Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Official Russian tv just announced that the next target is Poland. Sounds like they’re deploying a long line. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6015 "2022-06-01T16:59:42Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > I wonder what exactly was promised. That Ukraine won’t attack Russian territory with those particular weapons, or that Ukraine won’t attack Russian territory at all? I would wager any agreement would be along the lines of not using _these particular weapons_ to attack targets in Russia. We’ve been pretty quiet whenever Ukraine’s hit [fuel](https://www.reuters.com/world/ukraine-strikes-fuel-depot-russias-belgorod-regional-official-says-2022-04-01/) and [ammo dumps](https://nypost.com/2022/04/27/russian-ammunition-depot-hit-in-suspected-ukrainian-karma-strike/) in Russia near Belgorod on several occasions. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6016 "2022-06-01T17:03:42Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Official Russian tv just announced that the next target is Poland. Clearly, Russia is kicking ass and taking names. They’re just biding their time now polishing up all the mothballed T-62s remaining in their inventory. NATO will be unprepared for what is to come. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6017 "2022-06-01T17:16:56Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Clearly, Russia is kicking ass and taking names. They’re just biding their time now polishing up all the mothballed T-62s remaining in their inventory. NATO will be unprepared for what is to come. Battalions equipped with T-34s? 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6018 "2022-06-01T17:23:15Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > NATO will be unprepared for what is to come. Well, to be fair, when was the last time we tried to house a couple of hundred thousand POWs? ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6019 "2022-06-01T17:30:22Z")
Not that we should seriously consider a Russian invasion of Poland any time soon, but does anyone know if Russian rail gauge is even compatible with Polish? Russians occupied the country for decades, so one would assume at least some of it is compatible gauge. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6020 "2022-06-01T17:39:24Z")
[Some Belarusian troops are joining Ukraine in fighting](https://www.npr.org/2022/05/31/1101265753/russia-ukraine-belarus-belarusian-volunteers-poland)-not all of them are on Putin’s side, thankfully. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6021 "2022-06-01T18:44:54Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > does anyone know if Russian rail gauge is even compatible with Polish? According to [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Poland#Links_with_adjacent_countries), the bulk of Poland’s railroads are standard gauge, 1,435mm while Russia is 1,520. There are some narrow gauge railroads in Pomerania and Upper Silesia, most of them tourist lines, and so are insignificant to any war effort. More troubling, as a former Soviet client, Belarus is also 1,520mm so Russia could in theory, easily move materiel and stage it there as well. Lithuania and Ukraine are also 1,520 but I don’t think they’d be as eager to work with Russia on any Polish invasion. Wiki also notes that Finland is 1,524mm, an even 5 feet, which is “within tolerance.” ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6022 "2022-06-01T19:51:34Z")
Ukrainian forces are withdrawing from Severodonetsk. [Ukraine has made ‘strategically sound, but painful’ withdrawal from Severodonetsk, say defence experts (msn.com)](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ukraine-has-made-strategically-sound-but-painful-withdrawal-from-severodonetsk-say-defence-experts/ar-AAXWApv?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=864a738e59634cbc9ae1616bcacca659) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6023 "2022-06-01T19:57:36Z")
I’m sick and tired of this Western double standard. Russia can bomb Ukraine since Day 1, but Ukraine mustn’t dare hit a single inch of Russian territory. (Cue the “But nukes…”) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6024 "2022-06-01T20:36:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’m sick and tired of this Western double standard. It’s more of a standard. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=297) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=299)