# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 302
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6085 "2022-06-06T07:28:45Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Is it not possible for you to discuss something without using analogies? I wish to emphatically second this line of thinking. Every time I read something like “it’s not over, we just started the third quarter and Russia is subbing in another coaching staff,” or whatever, it literally turns my stomach. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6086 "2022-06-06T13:47:51Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Yet the Russians continue with their tactics, and it’s working pretty well. They won’t conquer all of Ukraine, but they seem to have been pretty good at taking over the 20% of it which they currently control, and will continue to pummel everything within range of their gunsights for a long, long time. I’m not sure it’s a fair assessment to say Russia took over 20% of Ukraine, because they were fomenting insurgency in the Donbass for almost a decade. They control much of that area now, true, but they had some level of control over it prior to the invasion anyway. The biggest true territory gains thus far by Russia (in my opinion, anyway) are along the southern coastal area. I’m impressed Ukraine initiated a counterattack near Kherson; that makes sense for a number of reasons. Still, it’s obvious at the moment that the war hinges on controlling the Donbass. If Ukraine can keep the lines essentially static in that area for a little while longer, until the long-range artillery and rocket systems are in place, we might finally see the beginning of the push of Russian forces back to their border. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6087 "2022-06-06T13:50:43Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’m not using sports analogies arbitrarily; I’m using them because there are direct similarities between sports and war. Both involve victory or defeat outcomes, both involve planning, execution, require guidance from higher-ups, tactics, strategy, a time period by which point it will eventually become clear who has won, and both involve margin of victory - one can win big or win small. The problem is that sports are a game. Taken very seriously by some, but: a game, engaged in by volunteers. It’s my understanding that there have been societies that engaged in something called “war” that was done in a similar fashion. Ours is not one of them. What is happening in Ukraine (and elsewhere) is very much not a game, and most of the participants in no way volunteered. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6088 "2022-06-06T15:17:15Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Is it not possible for you to discuss something without using analogies? Though I acknowledge the potential insensitivity of this, as a former instructor and instructional facilitator in the military, sometimes it’s not possible to discuss or inform without using analogies. Sometimes it’s an effective and even necessary way of getting a point across. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6089 "2022-06-06T15:20:23Z")
The irony is that’s it’s very common to describe _sporting_ events using _war_ analogies. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6090 "2022-06-06T15:24:29Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Though I acknowledge the potential insensitivity of this, as a former instructor and instructional facilitator in the military, sometimes it’s not possible to discuss or inform without using analogies. Sometimes it’s an effective and even necessary way of getting a point across. I agree. Most of us have never experienced war, even indirectly. Analogies are therefore helpful, whether to sports or something else. It’s not about being insensitive, it’s about using language from situations that we’re more directly familiar with. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6091 "2022-06-06T15:24:47Z")
I’d be fairly certain that the origins of organized sport goes back to preparing for and/or maintaining the teamworking skills and endurance for fighting in battles. Likewise, games like chess and hnefatafl were probably developed to practice strategy and dance was developed to maintain the agility for fighting. Any of these would be not only a reasonable source for fighting analogies but, probably, the best and most natural sources. ETA: [https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/sport-and-preparing-troops-war](https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/sport-and-preparing-troops-war) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6092 "2022-06-06T15:32:13Z")
Moderating: Some people like to use analogies, and i believe that’s allowed. Sports analogies are both appropriate and disconcerting when discussing war. 1. sports analogies may be used in this thread, but please try to recognize and acknowledge that people are dying every day in this war. 2. feel free to ignore any post that uses sports analogies, to especially if they feel callous to you. 3. feel free to report any especially callous posts, as they may fail the “don’t be a jerk” test. But 4) please don’t hijack this breaking news thread with a discussion of the history of sports, why sports analogies are or aren’t appropriate, etc. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6093 "2022-06-06T15:36:56Z")
A tornado strikes a local town and kills 25 people. I’m upset and distressed for the families. I couldn’t react that way if tornados struck locally every day. I was very upset when Russia invaded Ukraine. The early news was horrific. It still is but I can’t let myself dwell on it. Our minds have a defense mechanism that keeps us sane. I’ve noticed the news is focusing less on the civilian torture & deaths. Probably because they understand you can’t beat that drum every day. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6094 "2022-06-06T15:39:09Z")
I was going to reply to @Velocity but I saw the mod note, so I’ll drop it. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6095 "2022-06-06T15:46:33Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > I’m not sure it’s a fair assessment to say Russia took over 20% of Ukraine, because they were fomenting insurgency in the Donbass for almost a decade. They control much of that area now, true, but they had some level of control over it prior to the invasion anyway. I understand they (including the Russian separatists they were supporting) controlled 15% of the country before the invasion. Since February 24th 2022, after the loss of tens of thousands of soldiers, vehicles, and equipment, Russian forces have managed to secure an additional 5% of Ukraine’s land mass. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6096 "2022-06-06T16:31:05Z")
And, as someone else noted, they accomplished this “stellar” feat by killing thousands of civilians and making themselves an international pariah with much of the civilized world while creating potential famines in some areas (Africa) which kinda-sorta supported them at the beginning. Not to mention their biggest remaining trading partner for grain and petroleum (China, and to a lesser extent India) now has all the negotiating power when it comes to terms and prices, simply because there’s nowhere else to sell the stuff. It’s mind-boggling how short-sighted and amazingly stupid this entire situation is. We’re seeing one of the worst statecraft moves in human history unfold before our very eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6097 "2022-06-06T16:44:02Z")
> [@Sauron](#): > > … while creating potential famines in some areas (Africa) which kinda-sorta supported them at the beginning I haven’t heard about this. Can you briefly explain (or link to an explanation about) this consequence? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6098 "2022-06-06T16:48:16Z")
Several African nation rely on buying food from Ukraine. Almost as importantly, the price of food is going up swiftly making it extra hard. All of this is compounded by droughts. > **[Drought and soaring food prices from Ukraine war leave millions in Africa...](https://www.npr.org/2022/05/18/1099733752/famine-africa-ukraine-invasion-drought#:~:text=Press-,African%20famine%3A%20Ukraine%20invasion%2C%20pandemic%20and%20drought%20put%20millions%20at,highs%20after%20Russia%20attacked%20Ukraine)** > > A report finds 23 million people are experiencing extreme hunger in Ethiopia, Somalia and Kenya, which face their worst drought in 40 years. Food prices hit record highs after Russia attacked Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6099 "2022-06-06T16:49:12Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Likewise, games like chess and hnefatafl were probably developed to practice strategy and dance was developed to maintain the agility for fighting. Sorry, are you suggesting that humans invented dancing to be better at fighting wars? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6100 "2022-06-06T16:51:01Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Several African nation rely on buying food from Ukraine. > > [African famine: Ukraine invasion, pandemic and drought put millions at risk : NPR](https://www.npr.org/2022/05/18/1099733752/famine-africa-ukraine-invasion-drought#:~:text=Press-,African%20famine%3A%20Ukraine%20invasion%2C%20pandemic%20and%20drought%20put%20millions%20at,highs%20after%20Russia%20attacked%20Ukraine) Christ on a bike. And we complain about $5 gas. Thanks for fighting my ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6101 "2022-06-06T16:51:10Z")
see modnote above: > [@Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24/960037/6092): > > Moderating: Some people like to use analogies, and i believe that’s allowed. Sports analogies are both appropriate and disconcerting when discussing war. sports analogies may be used in this thread, but please try to recognize and acknowledge that people are dying every day in this war. feel free to ignore any post that uses sports analogies, to especially if they feel callous to you. feel free to report any especially callous posts, as they may fail the “don’t be a jerk” test. But 4) pleas… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6102 "2022-06-06T16:55:46Z")
Sorry, I thought that was specific to the topic of whether analogies are appropriate at all, not to discussion of the aptness any particular analogy. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6103 "2022-06-06T17:23:50Z")
Let’s try to keep discussion in this thread specific to this war, and save the discussion of which analogies are generally appropriate for another place. I happen to think that’s an interesting topic, and less depressing than this one. But i think it’s best discussed in another thread. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6104 "2022-06-06T17:51:59Z")
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