# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 304
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2022, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6125 "2022-06-07T12:50:22Z")
Yeah I think he means “Cavalry” not “infantry” (Tanks and armored vehicles being considered Cavalry) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6126 "2022-06-07T14:28:21Z")
Yes Cavalry . I had a brain fart yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2022, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6127 "2022-06-07T16:24:17Z")
[Severodonetsk becomes a huge mass grave for Russian army and Kadyrovites (yahoo.com)](https://www.yahoo.com/news/severodonetsk-becomes-huge-mass-grave-094900416.html) > Ukrainian troops had prepared for [the siege of Severodonetsk](https://english.nv.ua/nation/russians-offensive-will-culminate-with-battles-for-severodonetsk-says-iws-think-tank-ukraine-news-50247447.html) for a very long time, and roughly understood in which directions the attackers would go, they prepared — maybe they laid mines, maybe they set up ambushes. > > The attackers were allowed into the city, and then this trap was snapped shut – and there they were all killed, and annihilated. > > At first I didn’t really believe in this story, I thought it sounded too good to be true. However, I read [former FSB colonel, terrorist] Igor Girkin (Strelkov), and he says that the Ukrainian counter-offensive in Severodonetsk is indeed successful and developing. He said, “I don’t want to talk about the scale of the problems.” Obviously, the scale is quite serious. > > [Now the Russians are retreating from Severodonetsk in a panic.](https://english.nv.ua/nation/russia-suffers-setback-in-severodonetsk-shells-hirske-50247553.html) > > … > > Let’s hope it’s all true. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6128 "2022-06-07T16:44:01Z")
A YouTube vid from Military Summary channel was linked a couple days ago that claims the large chemical plant is mined. Supposedly the Russians are very concerned that toxic fumes could escape. Killing anyone downwind. That would be another reason for the Russians to pull back. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6129 "2022-06-07T16:48:11Z")
Interesting because the day after that article was published the Russians were claiming they had the Ukrainians feeling in Severodonetsk (I even posted about it in this thread). It must be a very complicated situation there because all the analysts I’ve listened to want to wait to hear more before making any claims and will not commit either way. It does sound like maybe the Ukrainians retreated (possibly as a lure) and then counter attacked. The mayor of Severodonetsk a few hours ago claimed that the city is in Ukrainian hands and they had strengthened their positions. But I still keep hearing conflicting reports - some say the Russians have been routed, but others (not just Russians) say that the Ukrainians are in a difficult situation and at risk of losing the city. Edit: Forbes have just published a good article about Severodonetsk today: > **[Ukrainian Troops Counterattack In The South And East](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/06/06/now-ukrainian-troops-are-counterattacking-in-the-south-and-east/?sh=491797bf3c53)** > > Inasmuch as capturing Severodonetsk has become the Kremlin’s biggest near-term goal in Ukraine, the Ukrainian counteroffensive could spell disaster. This city is right at the centre of this war right now. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2022, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6130 "2022-06-07T17:55:40Z")
A lot of people will sleep better with this monster dead. Site: [https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/mercenary-vladimir-andonov-killed-by-ukrainian-sniper-with-two-russian-generals-dead-in-separate-attack-reports-claim/news-story/5cdfa678c1b7df5ccedbb49d9fc1552f](https://www.skynews.com.au/world-news/mercenary-vladimir-andonov-killed-by-ukrainian-sniper-with-two-russian-generals-dead-in-separate-attack-reports-claim/news-story/5cdfa678c1b7df5ccedbb49d9fc1552f) > [@](#): > > A notorious Russian mercenary, who is believed to have played a crucial role in the mass shooting of Ukrainian prisoners of war and execution of civilians in the Donbas region, has reportedly been killed. > > Vladimir Andonov, 44, also known as “The Executioner” for his brutality in previous wars he served in Syria and Libya, was shot dead by a Ukrainian sniper in Kharkiv. > > “The death in Ukraine of Vladimir Andonov, better known as Vaha, has become known,” Russian publication Moskovsky Komsomolets reported. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6131 "2022-06-07T19:09:55Z")
I’ve heard of assassins being executed, but The Executioner being assassinated…? _[Mortuis nihil nisi bonum.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_mortuis_nil_nisi_bonum)_ ‘Andonov is dead.’ ‘Good.’ ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2022, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6132 "2022-06-07T22:06:44Z")
Damn, I am getting more and more impressed with the Ukrainians every day! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2022, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6133 "2022-06-07T23:51:04Z")
Andonov was a leader of the ~~Irony Brigade~~ Wagner Group – the perfect name for a bunch of guys you want for to eradicate “Nazis”. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6134 "2022-06-08T12:51:45Z")
Two more Russian generals reportedly killed in one day this past weekend. [Ukraine war: Putin ‘loses two of his most senior commanders in one day’ | Daily Mail Online](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10888403/Ukraine-war-Putin-loses-two-senior-commanders-one-day.html) ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6135 "2022-06-08T14:10:52Z")
Looks like Russia IS making gains in Severodonestk: > **[Ukrainian forces may have to pull back in Sievierodonetsk, governor says](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-forces-may-have-pull-back-sievierodonetsk-governor-says-2022-06-08/?taid=62a0ac90802cad0001f779e4)** > > Ukraine's military may have to pull back to stronger positions in the embattled eastern city of Sievierodonetsk, but they will not give up the city and fierce fighting raged there on Wednesday, the region's governor said. Russia is very close to capturing all of Donbas which might mean we see from Putin a George W Bush moment of “mission accomplished” (where it very much isn’t and years of bloody confilct still lie ahead). [![](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/resizer/vufurQ226lP8kquyHzZBt4XJZWM=/1200x0/filters:quality(80)/arc-anglerfish-tgam-prod-tgam.s3.amazonaws.com/public/7FMIBPGJGZHELODTJZZ67EIR4U) ](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/resizer/vufurQ226lP8kquyHzZBt4XJZWM=/1200x0/filters:quality(80)/arc-anglerfish-tgam-prod-tgam.s3.amazonaws.com/public/7FMIBPGJGZHELODTJZZ67EIR4U) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6136 "2022-06-08T17:16:08Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Looks like Russia IS making gains in Severodonestk: I don’t think the city of Sievierodonetsk is of great strategic military value in that it does not really go anywhere. If the Russian invaders were to capture the city, then they immediately hit the Siverskyi Donets river, with the city of Lysychansk on the opposite bank on higher ground. So the aim of Ukrainian forces in Sievierodonetsk seems to be to whittle down Russian invading forces in urban warfare, rather than to hold the city at all costs. > [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Russia is very close to capturing all of Donbas… The Russian invaders are not close at all to capturing the whole of the Donbas. In the map below, the area outlined in blue is the Donbas. The area with the red outline is what the Russians controlled before the February invasion, with red shading showing currently occupied territory. Furthermore, the portion of the Donbas under Ukrainian control is denser in urban settlements than most of the rest of the Donbas, which means it will be harder to try and capture. [![](https://i.imgur.com/6EDnWFC.png) ](https://i.imgur.com/6EDnWFC.png) ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6137 "2022-06-08T17:38:33Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Edit: Forbes have just published a good article about Severodonetsk today: This is an interesting story. The author makes the observation that Ukraine is taking advantage of Russia’s preoccupation with Severodonetsk to tie up Russian troops there, while Ukraine establishes a foothold to go after Kherson. I think Ukraine has two advantages in this conflict. The first is the Ukrainian commitment, their will to fight. The second is their strategic ability. They seem to have Russia thoroughly outclassed in both areas. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6138 "2022-06-08T17:49:24Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > I don’t think the city of Sievierodonetsk is of great strategic military value in that it does not really go anywhere. If the Russian invaders were to capture the city, then they immediately hit the Siverskyi Donets river, with the city of Lysychansk on the opposite bank on higher ground. They are jointly under attack - the fight is being short-handed in the media as for Severodonestk, but it is actually for both. Lysychansk is apparently getting pounded hard. The strategic position is they are the last major population centers in the Luhansk oblast (not the Donbas as a whole) and gives the Russians considerable control along the length of the Siverskyi Donets. Which would then shift to becoming a geographic impediment to any Ukrainian counter-attack, just as up until now it has been for the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6139 "2022-06-08T18:07:34Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > They are jointly under attack - the fight is being short-handed in the media as for Severodonestk, but it is actually for both. Lysychansk is apparently getting pounded hard. From the NASA fire map, action seems to be concentrated in Sievierodonetsk: [![](https://i.imgur.com/QqRFStO.png) ](https://i.imgur.com/QqRFStO.png) > [@Tamerlane](#): > > The strategic position is they are the last major population centers in the Luhansk oblast (not the Donbas as a whole) and gives the Russians considerable control along the length of the Siverskyi Donets. Which would then shift to becoming a geographic impediment to any Ukrainian counter-attack, just as up until now it has been for the Russians. I would think Sievierodonetsk-Lysychansk would be the absolute last place along the entire front line in Ukraine that Ukrainian forces would be thinking of launching a counteroffensive from. There are huge areas of Ukraine that will need to be liberated first before contemplating such a move. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6140 "2022-06-08T18:20:42Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > From the NASA fire map, action seems to be concentrated in Sievierodonetsk It does, but my understanding is Lysychansk has been hammered with artillery and there has also been some street-fighting there (granted, Fog of War and all that). I don’t expect the Russians to stop until they’ve overwhelmed both. It wouldn’t make much tactical sense to not. > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > I would think Sievierodonetsk-Lysychansk would be the absolute last place along the entire front line in Ukraine that Ukrainian forces would be thinking of launching a counteroffensive from. There are huge areas of Ukraine that will need to be liberated first before contemplating such a move. Quite probably. But if Putin is looking for a settlement where he ‘keeps’ the Donbas (either directly or via puppet republics), which seems like it might be the new goal, eliminating the last major salient in Luhansk and ‘straightening’ up his lines makes some sense. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6141 "2022-06-08T18:34:48Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > It does, but my understanding is Lysychansk has been hammered with artillery and there has also been some street-fighting there (granted, Fog of War and all that). Do you have a cite for the street-fighting? I would be very surprised if there were any Russian forces in Lysychansk. I’m not sure how they would have gotten there. > [@Tamerlane](#): > > Quite probably. But if Putin is looking for a settlement where he ‘keeps’ the Donbas (either directly or via puppet republics), which seems like it might be the new goal, eliminating the last major salient in Luhansk and ‘straightening’ up his lines makes sense. Sievierodonetsk is of symbolic importance to the Russians, which is why they are focusing most of their energy into capturing it, and why the Ukrainians will aim to make it costly and painful for them to do so, even if the city is not strategically important in pure military terms. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6142 "2022-06-08T18:39:34Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Do you have a cite for the street-fighting? Not readily at hand - I hop grasshopper-like from source to source these days. Could have been a general account of fighting in the twin towns where Lysychansk and street-fighting were mentioned in the same breath, but the fighting in question was all occurring in Sievierodonetsk. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6143 "2022-06-08T18:44:09Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I think Ukraine has two advantages in this conflict. The first is the Ukrainian commitment, their will to fight. The second is their strategic ability. They seem to have Russia thoroughly outclassed in both areas. Interior lines of communication help, too. > **[Interior lines](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interior_lines)** > > Interior lines\[a\] (as opposed to exterior lines) is a military term, derived from the generic term line of operation or line of movement. The term "interior lines" is commonly used to illustrate, describe, and analyze the various possible routes (lines) of logistics, supply, recon, approach, attack, evasion, maneuver, or retreat of armed forces. > Interior line strategies are based on the fact that lines of movement and communication within an enclosed area are shorter and safer than thos Sk... ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6144 "2022-06-09T01:46:49Z")
😒 Direct threats to you and your family. That would be demoralizing. I guess collaborators are giving the Russians name of soldiers? ISW: [Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 8 | Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-8) > [@](#): > > **Russian forces are escalating the use of psychological and information operations to damage the morale of Ukrainian soldiers.** The Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on June 8 that Russian forces are sending threatening messages to the personal devices of Ukrainian servicemen calling on them to betray their service oaths, lay down their arms, surrender, or defect to Russia.[1] The GUR reported that Russian forces are sending messages on a variety of platforms including SMS, Telegram, Viber, Signal, and WhatsApp and that the messages use location information to threaten to harm Ukrainian soldiers or their family members. Ukrainian military expert Dmytro Snegirov additionally noted that Russian propagandists are conducting informational and psychological campaigns to spoil the morale of Ukrainian troops by disseminating information that the battle for Severodonetsk will become the “next Mariupol.”[2] These information and psychological attacks likely seek to lower the morale of Ukrainian servicemen as operations on multiple axes of advance continue to generate high causalities on both the Ukrainian and Russian sides. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=303) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=305)