# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 306
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6165 "2022-06-09T17:35:15Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > This war is in the perfect sweet spot for US support. The Ukrainians are in a battle to keep their democratic values alive and are fighting against one of America’s strategic enemies. > [@gnoitall](#): > > It’s a rare proxy war when our proxy is facing, not “their” proxy, but “them” directly, without that awkward moral ambiguity of who is responsible for the fight. It’s stupid easy to paint one side the obvious bad guys and strongly support the other as the clear victim. Agreed with both these points, but (at the risk of a mod note for injecting politics) I feel compelled to say I’m glad we have a president who’s able to see this clarity and act accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6166 "2022-06-09T19:11:19Z")
Made me think of how they zapped Johar Dudayev in 1996 by homing in on his satellite phone signal with a guided missile. Ukraine today has got to have better signal defenses than were available to Dudayev then! ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6167 "2022-06-09T20:56:41Z")
I didn’t realize the Ukrainian drone operators (air reconnaissance unit) were this well organized. They had prepared for several years before disbanding in 2019. They were restarted a few months before the war began. It seems unbelievable that their success has not resulted in financial support and equipment. > **[The drone operators who halted Russian convoy headed for Kyiv](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/28/the-drone-operators-who-halted-the-russian-armoured-vehicles-heading-for-kyiv)** > > Special IT force of 30 soldiers on quad bikes is vital part of Ukraine’s defence, but forced to crowdfund for supplies > [@](#): > > However, while Ukraine’s western backers have supplied thousands of anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles and other military equipment, Aerorozvidka has been forced to resort to [crowdfunding](https://www.facebook.com/aerorozvidka/) and a network of personal contacts in order to keep going, by getting hold of components such as advanced modems and thermal imaging cameras, in the face of export controls that prohibit them being sent to Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6168 "2022-06-09T22:33:19Z")
If this details in this article are true then this small brigade of operators may have turned the war and saved the Ukrainian capital. I’m slightly dubious but you never know. Either way it would make for a great movie one day. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6169 "2022-06-09T23:00:10Z")
Eyes in the sky are an advantage in war. Observation balloons were still used in WWII. Maybe even later? I’d hate to be the guys in the basket. [![](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/50adfa2ae4b0cc1d786569eb/1404659043886-0AE33ZKWE5NR1KG6A2Z5/?content-type=image%2Fjpeg) ](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/50adfa2ae4b0cc1d786569eb/1404659043886-0AE33ZKWE5NR1KG6A2Z5/?content-type=image%2Fjpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6170 "2022-06-09T23:18:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Observation balloons were still used in WWII. Do you have a citation for that? The only balloons I’ve seen in WWII were barrage balloons. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6171 "2022-06-09T23:29:45Z")
I thought the German Cross was from WWII. I just went to the article and it’s about WWI equipment. I shouldn’t have relied on only the photo. Seems like a balloon would be cheaper and more expendable than sending a plane to direct artillery fire. A plane runs out of fuel. A balloon stays up much longer. But, I’m not in the military. [![](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ifDsZzZenOE/X1U3t-mDxfI/AAAAAAAAZzo/DZQLo5nvKGYdLZ1656nLbl04rP5nMhIgwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/balloons-world-war-one%2B%25284%2529.jpg) ](https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ifDsZzZenOE/X1U3t-mDxfI/AAAAAAAAZzo/DZQLo5nvKGYdLZ1656nLbl04rP5nMhIgwCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/balloons-world-war-one%2B%25284%2529.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6172 "2022-06-09T23:33:12Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > the German Cross was from WWII. > **[Iron Cross](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Cross)** > > The Iron Cross (German: Eisernes Kreuz, listenⓘ, abbreviated EK) was a military decoration in the Kingdom of Prussia, and later in the German Empire (1871–1918) and Nazi Germany (1933–1945). The design, a black cross pattée with a white or silver outline, was derived from the insignia of the medieval Teutonic Order and borne by its knights from the 13th century. As well as being a military medal, it has also been used as an emblem by the Prussian Army, the Imperial German Army, and the Reichswe... The Iron Cross predates modern Germany, let alone WWII. However, the point about observation balloons in World War II is surprisingly valid, if Wikipedia is accurate. > **[Observation balloon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observation_balloon)** > > An observation balloon is a type of balloon that is employed as an aerial platform for gathering intelligence and spotting artillery. The use of observation balloons began during the French Revolutionary Wars, reaching their zenith during World War I, and they continue in limited use today. Synonyms include espionage balloon, reconnaissance balloon, spy balloon, and surveillance balloon. > Historically, observation balloons were filled with hydrogen.\[citation needed\] The balloons were fabric env... > [@](#): > > The Red Army of the Soviet Union used observation balloons for artillery spotting. 8 “Aeronautical Sections” existed and 19,985 observation flights were performed by **balloonists of the Red Army during the Second World War** , clocking up 20,126 flight hours. 110 Soviet observation balloons were lost. Which brings it back to the Russians. And perhaps the Ukranians. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6173 "2022-06-09T23:44:40Z")
Today’s miniature cameras would work well with a tethered spy balloon not much bigger than your fist. I wouldn’t be surprised if the ingenious Ukrainians have rigged something up. Paint it bluish-grey and it wouldn’t easily be seen. This HD camera has night vision for $29. . > **[Micro Mini HD Video Camera](https://kiuiuc.com/products/micro-mini-hd-video-camera?msclkid=0edc09ce40ba13a989496b6cc54ce9a5)** > > Micro HD Video Camera Our Micro HD Video Camera is the Smallest camera, more convenient to hide and stronger concealment. HD 1080P, night vision and very smart! Small size, it is very portable and you can easily do the DIY and can be used in many... ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6174 "2022-06-10T00:13:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Today’s miniature cameras would work well with a tethered spy balloon not much bigger than your fist. How would you overcome the wind factor? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6175 "2022-06-10T01:14:43Z")
Hmm, it would have to be a camera on a telescoping mast. Your right. A cable wouldn’t hold a small balloon stable enough. I’ve read reports of cameras strapped on birds. Not sure if it’s believable. The camera’s stability would be an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6176 "2022-06-10T01:38:46Z")
Ukraine is admitting to 100-200 KIA a day. Very ugly. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6177 "2022-06-10T03:26:41Z")
Mines went off in transport. It must be nerve-racking putting them in the ground and arming. Seems like it should be easier for Ukrainian forces to disarm mines from the 1950’s. The tech is well known and there should be a lot of information available. There are organizations that have cleared old Soviet minefields all over the world. ISW June 9 > [@](#): > > **Russian forces are continuing to deploy outdated military equipment to Ukraine to replace losses.** The Ukrainian Main Intelligence Directorate (GUR) reported on June 9 that Russian forces are mining Kherson Oblast with mines from the 1950s to defend against recent Ukrainian counterattacks in northwestern Kherson Oblast.[1] The GUR stated that Russian forces moved these mines from Russia’s Rostov Oblast to the Kherson area despite the fact the mines were meant to be destroyed. The GUR claimed that some of the mines detonated during the transportation processes and killed Russian sappers from the 49th Combined Arms Army. The GUR’s report is consistent with previous statements that Russian forces are moving old and obsolete equipment to Ukraine to make up for equipment losses, including deploying T-62 tanks to the Melitopol area and pulling MLRS and 152mm howitzers from storage in Irkutsk, Siberia.[2] ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6178 "2022-06-10T03:40:10Z")
[side note] > [@aceplace57](#): > > I thought the German Cross was from WWII In aircraft and vehicle markings, the “Iron Cross”-style pattern with the arms flaring out is from WWI and post-WW2. The pattern for WW2 was with straight rectangular arms. [/side note] ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6179 "2022-06-10T07:01:08Z")
[Balkenkreuz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkenkreuz) – beam cross or bar cross. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6180 "2022-06-10T07:37:21Z")
> **[UkraineX: How Elon Musk’s space satellites changed the war on the ground](https://www.politico.eu/article/elon-musk-ukraine-starlink/)** > > From artillery strikes to Zoom calls, the tech billionaire’s internet service has become a lifeline in the fight against Russia. > “The strategic impact is, it totally destroyed [Vladimir] Putin’s information campaign,” said Brig. Gen. Steve Butow, director of the space portfolio at the Defense Innovation Unit, the Pentagon’s Silicon Valley tech outpost. “He never, to this day, has been able to silence Zelenskyy.” ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6181 "2022-06-10T12:51:55Z")
The situation in Ukraine is getting desperate . They’re using up a lot of artillery shells. I haven’t seen any reports of new production in NATO countries. I would expect that cold war stockpiles are still available. Imho Russia has to be in a similar situation. They’re burning through a extreme amount of their stockpile. No one really knows how much is left. The article says a NATO meeting is scheduled for June 15. Ukraine will offer a list of weapons and defensive equipment that is needed. > **[We’re almost out of ammunition and relying on western arms, says Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/10/were-almost-out-of-ammunition-and-relying-on-western-arms-says-ukraine)** > > Exclusive: Deputy head of military intelligence says it’s an artillery war now and ‘everything depends on what the west gives us’ > [@](#): > > “Everything now depends on what [the west] gives us,” said Skibitsky. “Ukraine has one artillery piece to 10 to 15 Russian artillery pieces. Our western partners have given us about 10% of what they have.” > > Ukraine is using 5,000 to 6,000 artillery rounds a day, according to Skibitsky. “We have almost used up all of our [artillery] ammunition and are now using 155-calibre Nato standard shells,” he said of the ammunition that is fired from artillery pieces. > “Europe is also delivering lower-calibre shells but as [Europe](https://www.theguardian.com/world/europe-news) runs out, the amount is getting smaller.” ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6182 "2022-06-10T16:47:59Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Imho Russia has to be in a similar situation. They’re burning through a extreme amount of their stockpile. The Russian stockpile is purported to be absolutely huge. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6183 "2022-06-10T17:53:34Z")
Putin reveals his plan to emulate his hero Peter I of Russia by conquering lands not recognised by anyone else as Russian. > ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2022, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6184 "2022-06-10T18:27:05Z")
Zelenskyy mike drop. > In response to the plans of the Russian Parliament to revoke Russia’s recognition of Lithuania’s Declaration of Independence from the USSR in 1991, the Kyiv City Council has cancelled the decree by Kyiv Rus Grand Prince Volodymyr of the founding of Moscow in 1147. > > Moscow is gone > [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=305) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=307)