# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 309
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6225 "2022-06-15T22:04:19Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It does seem like US Cold War stockpiles could supply more than 18 howitzers. We should have dusty warehouses that haven’t been opened since the Gulf Wars. That’s what Russia is using. US has supplied over 100 towed howitizers plus additional Self Propelled howitizers. Other nations such as France and Poland have supplied more. This is the june 1st tranche: \* Four High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, known as HIMARS, and ammunition: ~$700 million.\* Five counter-artillery radars; - Two air surveillance radars; - 1,000 Javelins and 50 Command Launch Units; - 6,000 antiarmor weapons; - 15,000 rounds of 155 mm artillery; - Four Mi-17 helicopters; - 15 tactical vehicles; - Spare parts and equipment. The latest [June 15th] isn’t completely broken down yet: The Pentagon said that the latest tranche of weapons for Ukraine is valued at $350 million and includes 18 155 mm howitzers, 36,000 rounds of 155 mm ammunition,18 tactical vehicles to tow 155 mm howitzers, ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HMARS, as well as four tactical vehicles to recover equipment and spare parts. The Pentagon will also provide two Harpoon coastal defense systems, thousands of secure radios, night vision and thermal devices as well as funding for training and maintenance support. That aid is collectively valued at $650 million. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6226 "2022-06-15T22:15:59Z")
The U.S. has now provided Ukraine with about $5.6 billion worth of weapons since the war began. That’s about 1% of that was given by the U.S. as lend-lease during WWII. Here’s how much the U.S. gave as lend-lease during WWII, as equivalent to 2020 value: Total: $582 billion including: - $365 billion went to Britain and its Empire - $131 billion to the Soviet Union, - $37.1 billion to France, - $18.6 billion to China > **[Lend-Lease | Scale, value and economics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#Scale,_value_and_economics)** > > A total of $50.1 billion (equivalent to $606 billion in 2021) was involved, or 17% of the total war expenditures of the U.S. Most, $31.4 billion ($380 billion) went to Britain and its empire. Other recipients were led by $11.3 billion ($137 billion) to the Soviet Union, $3.2 billion ($38.7 billion) to France, $1.6 billion ($19.3 billion) to China, and the remaining $2.6 billion to the other Allies. Reverse lend-lease policies comprised services such as rent on bases used by the U.S., a ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6227 "2022-06-15T22:44:10Z")
Two US ex-servicemen reportedly captured: > ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6228 "2022-06-16T10:27:51Z")
Absolutely disgusting reported treatment of Ukrainian citizens by Russian soldiers who interrogate and beat men if they feel they have been supportive of the Ukrainian efforts to repel them. And it seems to have been well coordinated or planned. > **['The Russians said beatings were my re-education'](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61683513)** > > Ukrainian citizens have told the BBC they were punched and electrocuted before being allowed to leave Mariupol. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6229 "2022-06-16T12:28:11Z")
Appears America is not releasing the rocket-propelled gliding Small Diameter Bomb to Ukraine either, which would have had a 93-mile range and been compatible with HIMARS. The sight of those things disintegrating Russians would have been nice, alas… ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6230 "2022-06-16T14:31:11Z")
Nothing that would put a major Russian city within range seems to be the guiding principle. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6231 "2022-06-16T14:35:11Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > And once Russia gains control there, what’s to stop them from offering a cease-fire, regrouping, and making another push for the rest of a weakened Ukraine in a year or two? Will they be “a weakened Ukraine” in a year or two? Give NATO a couple of years to train and re-equip Ukraine, and Russia will be ground up even worse the next time. The only way this plan ends badly for Ukraine is if NATO chickens out and abandons them. So what are the chances of that? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6232 "2022-06-16T14:42:38Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > The only way this plan ends badly for Ukraine is if NATO chickens out and abandons them. > > So what are the chances of that? Trying not to cross the line into politics, but I’ll just point out that we have a presidential election in 2024. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6233 "2022-06-16T14:48:58Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Trying not to cross the line into politics, but I’ll just point out that we have a presidential election in 2024. The US does, the rest of NATO doesn’t. Even if HypotheticalTrump decides to screw Ukraine, Ukraine will still be better off with all of Europe supplying arms and training. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6234 "2022-06-16T14:50:41Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > The US does, the rest of NATO doesn’t. Right, but as pointed out upthread, US contributions currently dwarf the rest of NATO nations combined. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6235 "2022-06-16T18:14:22Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > The US does, the rest of NATO doesn’t. Even if HypotheticalTrump decides to screw Ukraine, Ukraine will still be better off with all of Europe supplying arms and training. Put Trump in charge and we’ll be helping Russia, even with the rest of NATO on their side they’d still be behind. ---
**Author:** ![MikeF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6236 "2022-06-16T18:40:55Z")
The oft repeated plea is “We need stuff RIGHT NOW! And lots of it”. What is the main bottleneck in sending them howitzers, ammunition and other arms? Is it lack of supply, simple logistics or foot dragging by U.S./NATO? Are “we” really doing our best to get weapons to the field? As this has turned into a long-range artillery dual, I’d think there’s be an urgency to put them on level (at least) ground regarding big guns/missiles. Do NATO weapons not have longer range than Russian’s? I really don’t know and am not up on the capabilities of the various systems. If you can fire from a greater distance without fear of counter-battery fire, that’s a huge advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6237 "2022-06-16T19:50:35Z")
> [@MikeF](#): > > What is the main bottleneck in sending them howitzers, ammunition and other arms? I imagine a lot of it is logistics. You don’t want all those arms blown up on a train or truck convoy somewhere in Western Ukraine. Also - what nobody wants to admit - a lot of those arms (rifles, small rockets, mortars, etc.) are being prepositioned well west of the frontlines in case the Russians break through and the Ukrainians have to transition to a war of insurgency. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6238 "2022-06-16T23:50:04Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > I imagine a lot of it is logistics. And for Western-specific systems, add in a couple weeks or so to train the first batch of Ukrainians, who will then train more Ukrainians on how to use the system. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6239 "2022-06-16T23:56:56Z")
I hope Zelensky never gets into a high stakes poker game. Maybe someone told him Macron has monkeypox?😉 I normally wouldn’t post a daily mail link. But Zelensky’s body language is unmistakable. I’m surprised a experienced actor couldn’t conceal his emotions. Photo gallery with various pictures from todays NATO conference with French President Emmanuel Macron, Romanian President Klaus Iohannis, Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi and German Chancellor Olaf Scholz. > **[Zelensky looks far from enthusiastic as Macron offers hug in Kyiv](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10924389/French-DISS-Zelensky-looks-far-enthusiastic-Macron-awkwardly-tries-hug-Kyiv.html)** > > Zelensky looked as though he'd rather be in the trenches of Severodonetsk when Macron, dressed in his trademark navy suit, wrapped a crisply-laundered sleeve around his torso ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2022, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6240 "2022-06-16T23:59:43Z")
Zelensky, remember, was an actor, and knows when the cameras are rolling. There’s some pretty hilarious photos of him with a bunch of Republican senators who flew out for a photo op with the hero of the hour. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/14/ukraine-mcconnell-gop-visit-zelensky/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/14/ukraine-mcconnell-gop-visit-zelensky/). He looks like he’s wishing he could punch them all in the face. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6241 "2022-06-17T00:16:20Z")
I know Macron seems to be playing both sides. He’s supporting NATO but also trying stay friendly with Russia. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is similar. I think he may be shifting more towards Ukraine. Visiting the country and seeing the damage is a important step. Germany is still dependent on Russian gas. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6242 "2022-06-17T01:49:52Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Zelensky’s body language is unmistakable. I’m surprised a experienced actor couldn’t conceal his emotions. Why presume he’s not showing them on purpose? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6243 "2022-06-17T01:56:25Z")
That’s possible. Volodymyr Zelensky may approach his diplomatic job differently. Politicians usually glad-hand and smile regardless of their personal feelings. It’s one reason why politicians appear artifical. You never know their real feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6244 "2022-06-17T10:41:58Z")
> **[Russian spy caught trying to infiltrate war crimes court, says Netherlands](https://www.theguardian.com/law/2022/jun/16/russian-spy-caught-trying-to-infiltrate-war-crimes-court-says-netherlands)** > > Sergey Vladimirovich Cherkasov spent years building up fake ID and wanted to take up internship at ICC, says Dutch intelligence Russians must be concerned about what evidence may be accumulating. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=308) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=310)