# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 310
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6245 "2022-06-17T11:49:41Z")
Or just want to have a mole to help suppress such stories and their consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6246 "2022-06-17T11:52:06Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > That’s possible. Volodymyr Zelensky may approach his diplomatic job differently. > > Politicians usually glad-hand and smile regardless of their personal feelings. It’s one reason why politicians appear artifical. You never know their real feelings. He almost certainly is approaching his whole job differently. Have you been paying attention to him at all these past months? Hell, even in that article, they say this: > But his attempt to pull Ukraine’s President into a PR-friendly embrace at a joint press conference following the tour was not warmly received. > Zelensky looked as though he’d rather be fighting in the trenches of Severodonetsk when the smarmy French leader, dressed impeccably in his trademark navy blue suit, wrapped a crisply-laundered sleeve around his torso. “Zelensky looked as though he’d rather be fighting in the trenches” has been his image since the first day of the war, and he hasn’t changed that. His whole demeanor sends the message, “This is all just bullshit, what we need to be doing is winning the war.” It’s a message the Ukrainians need to hear, as well as everyone else in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6247 "2022-06-17T11:57:21Z")
Zelensky comes across as uniquely real, for a politician, and astonishingly brave. He also is an actor, and knows exactly what he is doing in front of cameras. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6248 "2022-06-17T11:57:42Z")
Apparently the meeting in Ukraine went well. Getting a face to face commitment is an important step. It means more than vague public comments from spokespersons. ISW June 16 > [@](#): > > **The leaders of Germany, France, Italy, and Romania committed to Ukrainian officials that the West would not demand any concessions from Ukraine to appease Russia and will support Ukraine to the end of the war during a visit to Kyiv on June 16.** French President Emmanuel Macron declared that France, Germany, Italy, and Romania are “are doing everything so that Ukraine alone can decide its fate.”[1] Macron added that Ukraine “must be able to win” and pledged to provide six more self-propelled howitzers.[2] German Chancellor Olaf Scholz stated that Germany will continue to provide financial, humanitarian, and weapons assistance for “Ukraine’s war of independence.”[3] Macron, Scholz, Italian Prime Minister Mario Draghi, and Romanian President Klaus Iohannis additionally vowed to back Ukraine’s bid to become an official candidate for European Union membership.[4] Sustained Western military support to Ukraine will be essential to enable Ukrainian forces to liberate Russian-occupied territory. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6249 "2022-06-17T16:44:51Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Zelensky comes across as uniquely real, for a politician, and astonishingly brave. He also is an actor, and knows exactly what he is doing in front of cameras. It must really eat at Putin that a younger, stronger, braver man is his adversary. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6250 "2022-06-17T16:50:12Z")
Russia has a damaged Tug. myukraineis has two videos. I checked several sources that said the damaged Tug didn’t sink. > **[Ukraine Blasts Russian Tug Near Snake Island With Land-Based Harpoon Missiles](https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebastienroblin/2022/06/17/ukraine-blasts-russian-tug-near-snake-island-with-land-based-missiles/?sh=45b0571b408c)** > > Video shows yet another Russian ship coming under attack while transiting toward Snake Island, an outpost infamously captured by the Russian Navy early in the war. Two sea-skimming missiles can be seen slamming into the vessel, causing it to erupt in... > **[The Navy struck the enemy tug "Vasily Bekh", which was carrying ammunition to...](https://myukraineis.org/news/the_navy_struck_the_enemy_tug_vasily_bekh_which_was_carrying_ammunition_to_the_snake-594.html)** > > The Ukrainian Navy lined up the Russian tug "Vasily Bekh" in the Black Sea. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6251 "2022-06-17T16:58:21Z")
This is Boris’ 3rd trip to Ukraine. > **[Boris Johnson promises Ukraine UK-led troop training scheme on Kyiv visit](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/17/boris-johnson-promises-ukraine-uk-led-troop-training-scheme-on-kyiv-visit)** > > PM announces programme including battle skills and counter-explosive tactics that will take place outside Ukraine ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6252 "2022-06-17T17:54:26Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Their inevitable demographic collapse. In a year or two they will have less soldiers than they do today. A well-reasoned explanation of why the Russian army is so critically short of troops on the ground: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKewF8\_SiIs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKewF8_SiIs). ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6253 "2022-06-17T18:07:30Z")
Great link. Thanks ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6254 "2022-06-17T19:44:48Z")
> [@Bookkeeper](#): > > A well-reasoned explanation of why the Russian army is so critically short of troops on the ground: [All metal, no manpower - Russian infantry shortages and mobilisation in Ukraine - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKewF8_SiIs). That’s crazy, I used to watch this guy for videogame videos. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6255 "2022-06-18T00:14:19Z")
Fascinating. Thanks for posting it. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6256 "2022-06-18T00:56:46Z")
Heheh, yes thanks. I watched this before I went on a business trip, wanted to post it, but was using a work computer that didn’t have my SDMB login cached. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6257 "2022-06-18T03:17:17Z")
And an article on the related issue of Russian demographics: > **[Russia Doesn’t Have the Demographics for War](https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/03/russia-demography-birthrate-decline-ukraine/)** > > The 1990s collapse in birth rates still impacts Moscow’s ambitions. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6258 "2022-06-18T03:49:47Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > And an article on the related issue of Russian demographics: > > [Russia's Demography Makes War a Painful Bet for Putin](https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/03/russia-demography-birthrate-decline-ukraine/) I can’t read the article and I’m not sure why: it doesn’t complain about my adblocker (I disabled it), it doesn’t ask me to subscribe or complain at me in any way… but the article just fades out in paragraph 3. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6259 "2022-06-18T04:27:21Z")
The end of the article seems a tad worrying, > [@](#): > > Rather than being purely a limiting factor, it’s possible to argue Russia’s weak demographic hand has made it even more dangerous. After all, Russia’s need for more people is no doubt a motivating consideration for its current aggressive posture toward Ukraine, and Putin has said the thought of a depopulated Russia [haunts him](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/12/01/russia-population-decline-putin/) most—even if the idea that Ukrainians would sign up to be good Russians is largely delusional. But Russia’s demography and the long shadow of the 1990s severely inhibit what the Kremlin can do now. Russia’s future ambitions are still weighed down by its recent past. like a star, when it runs out of fuel and flares up, Russia may become more aggressive as their situation worsens. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6260 "2022-06-18T06:22:05Z")
Maybe that’s why they kidnapped relocated all those Ukrainian children. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6261 "2022-06-18T06:42:39Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The end of the article seems a tad worrying, > > > [@](#): > > > > Rather than being purely a limiting factor, it’s possible to argue Russia’s weak demographic hand has made it even more dangerous. After all, Russia’s need for more people is no doubt a motivating consideration for its current aggressive posture toward Ukraine, and Putin has said the thought of a depopulated Russia [haunts him](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/12/01/russia-population-decline-putin/) most—even if the idea that Ukrainians would sign up to be good Russians is largely delusional. I recall seeing one explanation for WWII, once, that was like “Yeah, racism, German superiority, blah blah. Really, the issue was that Germany was going to run out of food because they had more people than farmland and the Green Revolution hadn’t happened yet. If they didn’t conquer some land, they were headed for an internal crisis.” No idea if that’s accurate but, certainly, it wouldn’t surprise me if - for Russia, today - there were some fairly practical realities that lead to the choice for conquest. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6262 "2022-06-18T06:57:22Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Absolutely disgusting reported treatment of Ukrainian citizens by Russian soldiers who interrogate and beat men if they feel they have been supportive of the Ukrainian efforts to repel them. And it seems to have been well coordinated or planned. > > ['The Russians said beatings were my re-education' - BBC News](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-61683513) Of course it was planned. That is how fear and intimidation works. Might makes right in that world view. > [@Horatius](#): > > The only way this plan ends badly for Ukraine is if NATO chickens out and abandons them. > > So what are the chances of that? Higher than I would like, but not inevitable. > [@aceplace57](#): > > I normally wouldn’t post a daily mail link. But Zelensky’s body language is unmistakable. I’m surprised a experienced actor couldn’t conceal his emotions. Or maybe Zelenskyy was entirely in control? No… more likely he’s human. I expect he’s not getting nearly enough rest and sleep, he’s under enormous stress, and probably frustrated with politics and posturing. > [@aceplace57](#): > > That’s possible. Volodymyr Zelensky may approach his diplomatic job differently. > > Politicians usually glad-hand and smile regardless of their personal feelings. It’s one reason why politicians appear artifical. You never know their real feelings. Yes, well Zelenskyy is not by profession a politician. That has, at times, caused problems for his political career. I suspect that a lot of people have always underestimated him - supposedly he is a very, very smart guy and very astute. > [@romansperson](#): > > It must really eat at Putin that a younger, stronger, braver man is his adversary. … and possibly healthier man. Who is “just” a comedian and actor. And a short little guy - Zelenskyy always seems to be the shortest person in the room. Which latter two traits are the sort that might make a bully underestimate him. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6263 "2022-06-18T07:03:51Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > like a star, when it runs out of fuel and flares up, Russia may become more aggressive as their situation worsens. There’s no amount of land acquisition that will compensate them for the global ass-fucking they going to get. And land is all they’ll get. They bombed any useful assets back to the stone age. They’ll have to rebuild what they destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6264 "2022-06-18T14:34:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > And a short little guy - Zelenskyy always seems to be the shortest person in the room. At 5’ 7", Zelenskyy and Putin are the officially same height. Unofficially, I’ve read speculation that Putin is actually 5’ 3" or 5’ 5". From the 6th reply in [this Quora discussion](https://www.quora.com/How-tall-is-Vladimir-Putin) [emphasis mine; edited to add links to photos, since Discourse won’t allow the embedded pictures]: > PM [Narendra] Modi is roughly 5′5″(165–167cm) for sure as **I have met him personally**. > > Now look at pictures of Putin with Modi ji > > [[Photo of Modi and Putin walking together]](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6c78139e4494210b3f006b792931a651-lq) > > if you look closely, Putin is wearing shoe inserts(you can clearly see his abnormally bent legs) > > [[Photo of Putin, Modi, and Chinese President Xi Jinping – Xi Jinping is clearly the tallest at 5’ 11"]](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e375e2b9232c8d7d2b093b22d5deb1b8-lq) > > **Putin is clearly shorter than Modi Ji and considering he has at least 5 cms of inserts. He Must be not more than 160cm** You can see both pictures at the same time by going to the Quora thread and scrolling down, or individually by clicking on the links to them in this post. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=309) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=311)