# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 314
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6325 "2022-06-23T01:59:01Z")
I’m curious what Russia is using? Attacking a drone with aircraft doesn’t seem like a good use of resources. (Swatting a bee with a shovel.)They must have anti-drone weapons. ISW June 22 [Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 22 | Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-22) > [@](#): > > **Reinforced Russian air-defense systems in eastern Ukraine are increasingly limiting the effectiveness of Ukrainian drones, undermining a key Ukrainian capability in the war.** _Foreign Policy’s_ Jack Detsch quoted several anonymous Ukrainian officials and military personnel that Ukrainian forces have largely halted the use of Turkish Bayraktar drones, which were used to great effect earlier in the war, due to improvements in Russian air-defense capabilities.[1] Ukrainian officials are reportedly increasingly concerned that US-provided Gray Eagle strike drones will also be shot down by reinforced Russian air defense over the Donbas.[2] Ukrainian forces have reportedly scaled back air operations to 20 to 30 sorties per day and are facing a deficit of available aircraft for active pilots. Russian forces are likely prioritizing deploying air defenses to eastern Ukraine to nullify Ukrainian operations and to protect the artillery systems Russian forces are reliant on to make advances. However, the Ukrainian air force and armed drones remain active elsewhere, inflicting several successful strikes on targets in Kherson Oblast in the last week. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6326 "2022-06-23T02:56:38Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > They must have anti-drone weapons. Light anti-aircraft weapons would work. Like small SAM missile systems. Given the damage the drones have caused, it wouldn’t really be disproportionate to use heavy SAM systems if they’re available and nothing else can stop the drone before it can (presumably) deliver its warload. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6327 "2022-06-23T02:59:00Z")
I think the US must be extremely concerned about vulnerabilities with the MQ-1C Gray Eagle and Switch blade drones. The pucker factor for US military planers must be a 10. Millions of dollars and years of research went into these drones. A few weeks of combat and US Drones are already getting shot down? I saw a photo of a Switch blade drone that successfully attacked. The circuit board was intact. Some of the chips may have fried, but reverse engineering is a concern. Testing NATO weapons is an obvious concern against Russian weapon systems. > **[Ukrainian Fighter Pilots Call B.S. On Need For Gray Eagle Drones](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukrainian-fighter-pilots-call-bullshit-on-need-for-mq-1c-gray-eagle-drones)** > > Ukraine could be in line to receive MQ-1C Gray Eagle armed drones, but the country's own pilots say they would be vulnerable and ineffective. Circuit boards mostly intact. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6328 "2022-06-23T03:18:20Z")
I tried disabling that Bulgarian link. Time out got me. I don’t feel good about it. I closed all my Tabs and cleared cache. Rebooted phone Better to be safe. Those photos can be found on Ukrainian news sites Mod killed the link. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6329 "2022-06-23T03:20:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’m curious what Russia is using? Upgraded [Pantsir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantsir_missile_system) and [Tor-M2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_missile_system) systems modified for anti-drone duties have been reported in the press. But beyond that they have other light systems like the Strela (mounted and MANPADs). They also have [mobile electronic jammers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krasukha_(electronic_warfare_system)). Really Russia has no lack of anti-drone options. Just as with in so many other areas they seem to have botched support during the initial invasion. Could be they are just finally getting their shit together, particularly now that they are concentrating on more static fronts where they are taking time to build up overwhelming force rather than trying highly mobile penetrations on the fly. Makes thing easier logistically when they are trying to slowly pound one area into dust rather than blitzing down a road. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6330 "2022-06-23T03:38:04Z")
US forces would use better tactics. For example, lay down suppressing fire before launching the drone. I would expect US drone operators get extensive tactical training. We used drones very sucessfully in Afghanistan. A lot of the antipersonnel targets never saw the danger until it went bang. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6331 "2022-06-23T03:49:30Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The pucker factor for US military planers must be a 10. Millions of dollars and years of research went into these drones. A few weeks of combat and US Drones are already getting shot down? Why do you think this would be a shock to anyone? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6332 "2022-06-23T03:56:52Z")
State of the art technology? The switchblade is suppose to be top tier. AFAIK we didn’t have a large drone loss in Afghanistan and we fought there 20 years. I did see an article last week that the guidance systems are a security concern. They’re supposed to be switching it for older tech. Russia will certainly capture a few drones. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6333 "2022-06-23T04:03:59Z")
You have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. Afghanistan didn’t have any anti-air capability. Switchblades are kamikaze drones that are supposed to be destroyed. Drones have far far exceeded expectations in Ukraine. It was previously though that they could not operate at all in a contested environment but they’ve shown to be at least somewhat effective. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6334 "2022-06-23T04:08:19Z")
I agree my knowledge is limited. The recent Ukrainian statements about heavy drone losses in Donbas concerns me. That could be NATO troops depending on those drones. I’ll let others with actual knowledge comment. I’m just looking at it from the sidelines. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6335 "2022-06-23T04:14:47Z")
A lot of the drones being used are small commercial ones. [![](https://i.imgur.com/0TiqyCR.png) ](https://i.imgur.com/0TiqyCR.png) [![](https://media.wired.co.uk/photos/627443d351f86466f08c9e8d/3:2/w_2400,h_1600,c_limit/Russia-Ukraine-Drones-Security-GettyImages-467414722.jpg) ](https://media.wired.co.uk/photos/627443d351f86466f08c9e8d/3:2/w_2400,h_1600,c_limit/Russia-Ukraine-Drones-Security-GettyImages-467414722.jpg) Link [Limited articles]: > **[Small Drones Are Giving Ukraine an Unprecedented Edge](https://www.wired.com/story/drones-russia-ukraine-war/)** > > From surveillance to search-and-rescue, consumer drones are having an unprecedented impact on Ukraine’s defense against Russia. These small drones can provide airborne reconnaissance ability down to individual squad level, and they’ve also been adapted to drop explosive rounds on enemy directly below them. Even a single MANPADS shot costs tens of thousands of dollars, many times more than the cost of a cheap drone. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6336 "2022-06-23T04:24:07Z")
Cheap drones have helped identify targets. It made a significant difference in the wars early weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6337 "2022-06-23T11:11:09Z")
I wonder if this conflict could eventually do the same thing for advancements in drone tech that WWII did for aircraft tech? ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6338 "2022-06-23T13:41:01Z")
I have this image of an autonomous drone being sent out into enemy space to seek out and engage targets with no input from an operator (other than maybe a final go/no go order). ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6339 "2022-06-23T14:19:22Z")
Beserkers/Borg? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6340 "2022-06-23T14:42:05Z")
I’m replaying Horizon: Zero Dawn at the moment, and so I would like to recommend against this idea of autonomous military robots. Even if it does lead to hunting robot dinosaurs with bow and arrow 900 years later. “Isn’t it just amazing how a century-and-a-half of science fiction did nothing to swerve our species from the path of doom?” ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6341 "2022-06-23T14:57:16Z")
Now would be the time to develop lightweight nonweaponized drones which mimic the weaponized ones. Send, say, four nonweaponized drones along with each weaponized one. Which would force the enemy to expand more AA rounds. Why not just send five weaponized ones ? “Mimics” could be made lighter and cheaper. “You MUST keep the enemy confused.” Jasper Maskelyne. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6342 "2022-06-23T15:04:11Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [T]hey’ve also been adapted to drop explosive rounds on enemy directly below them. When the use of hobby drones by amateur pilots was first mentioned, I thought of how easy it would be to weaponise one. Put a tube through the fuselage (assuming a fixed wing design, probably purpose built), the diameter of which will fit a hand grenade with the spoon attached. Have a mechanism to keep the grenade from falling out. Pull the pin, and insert the grenade and spoon into the tube. Figure out how high to fly for the four- or five-second delay. When the grenade is released, the spoon pops off and the striker hits the primer that lights the fuse. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6343 "2022-06-23T15:08:38Z")
duplicate post removed ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2022, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6344 "2022-06-23T15:18:48Z")
The [quadcopter-type drones](https://twitter.com/CaptainBlackSe1/status/1538512762099343360) are better for dropping munitions as they can hover in one position. From watching videos, I’d estimate they’re accurate enough to hit a target within a meter from a height of hundreds of feet in the air. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=313) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=315)