# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 324
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6525 "2022-07-07T22:41:21Z")
Sounds a bit desperate to me. However desperate despots do desperate deeds. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6526 "2022-07-07T23:11:52Z")
Hey, if it worked for John Paul Jones, maybe it will work for Putin. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2022, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6527 "2022-07-07T23:42:24Z")
I haven’t seen much news about a underground resistance. It’s surprising because it has traditionally been very helpful in gathering intelligence and harassing occupiers. ISW July 7 > [@](#): > > **Supporting Effort #2—Southern Axis (Russian objective: Defend Kherson and Zaporizhia oblasts against Ukrainian counterattacks)** > > Russian forces attempted limited ground assaults to retake lost positions in Kherson Oblast on July 7. Ukrainian forces reportedly repelled platoon-sized and smaller Russian reconnaissance-in-force operations in Dobryanka, Myrolyubivka, and Potemkyne along the T2207 highway in northern Kherson Oblast on July 6 and 7.[19] Ukraine’s Southern Operational Command also reported that Russian forces launched 12 Kalibr high-precision cruise missiles at Mykolaiv City and Ochakiv, Mykolaiv Oblast from positions in occupied Kherson Oblast, likely targeting Ukrainian maritime infrastructure in both cities.[20] Ukrainian jets and air defense forces engaged a Russian Su-35 fighter jet as it launched missiles over Odesa Oblast, successfully intercepting the missile and forcing the jet to withdraw.[21] Russian forces continued to hold their occupied positions and conduct artillery strikes along the entire Southern Axis to constrain Ukrainian counteroffensives.[22] > > Ukrainian partisans in and around occupied Melitopol, Zaporizhia Oblast are increasingly targeting Russian rail lines. The Ukrainian Resistance Center reported that Ukrainian partisans blew up a railway bridge about 25 km north of Melitopol between Novobohdanivka and Troitske on July 7, likely further obstructing Russian resupply efforts from Crimea to the Zaporizhia Oblast front line.[23] Ukrainian partisans had previously blown up a rail bridge near occupied Lyubimivka between Melitopol and Tokmak on July 3 and derailed a Russian armored train carrying ammunition near Melitopol on July 2.[24] The increase in reported activity supports ISW’s prior assessment that a Ukrainian partisan campaign is targeting Russian rail lines near Melitopol.[25] ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6528 "2022-07-08T00:24:39Z")
‘We have not yet begun to fight!’ ‘We’d better start, because we’re getting our arses kicked!’ ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6529 "2022-07-08T00:53:20Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > Hey, if it worked for John Paul Jones, maybe it will work for Putin. Following that analogy to its conclusion, Putin would allow Ukraine to burn Russia to the ground and then save the day by moving the entire Russian population to Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6530 "2022-07-08T01:05:31Z")
Or he’d compose a [killer bass line](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Jones_(musician)). ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6531 "2022-07-08T01:05:51Z")
Sen. Lindsey Graham has shown his support for the preservation of democracy in Ukraine. Sen. Richard Blumenthal also made the trip. [![](https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/digital-images/org/e3b315dc-623a-4e16-9730-25da26c2d675.JPG) ](https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/digital-images/org/e3b315dc-623a-4e16-9730-25da26c2d675.JPG) ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6532 "2022-07-08T01:55:36Z")
Hehe, and to come full circle, a user on a Bass Guitar forum I’m a member of has the naval JPJ as his avatar. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6533 "2022-07-08T02:07:19Z")
I found this idea quite compelling (the end of the article is paywalled): > **[Bomb Russia’s bridge to Crimea, Ukraine urged](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cut-off-russias-link-to-crimea-says-ex-nato-commander-qh93slq0k)** > > Ukraine could deal a devastating blow to the Kremlin by attacking the Kerch Strait bridge, which links mainland Russia with Crimea, using newly supplied Harpoon ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6534 "2022-07-08T02:17:12Z")
Ryan McBeth has a pretty good video about why they haven’t done it. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/kBECiXavaGA/hqdefault.jpg "Can Ukraine destroy the Kerch (Crimea) Bridge?") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBECiXavaGA) Short version: Bridges aren’t easy to bring down from the air. Hitting it is going to be difficult for Ukraine without air superiority and no high precision bomb capability. He’s a little wrong in his argument for how much explosive a special forces team would need to make the bridge inoperable - the counter argument he cites is a controlled demolition, and the special forces team doesn’t need to bring every bit of it down. But the rest of the argument, even the part of leaving the bridge as an escape route for Russian troops is pretty sound. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6535 "2022-07-08T02:30:46Z")
The Russians certainly seem to be nervous about the bridge to Crimea. In the past few days, they’ve conducted smoke screen exercises at the bridge: > This led to accidents for the motorists crossing the bridge: > The Russians have also placed a decoy ship at the bridge: [https://pbs.twimg.com/card\_img/1544658476475236353/AYTOSWxR?format=jpg&name=900x900](https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1544658476475236353/AYTOSWxR?format=jpg&name=900x900) > ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6536 "2022-07-08T03:02:14Z")
From the article in one of the above links: > [@](#): > > The Russian Federation placed a decoy vessel near the bridge connecting occupied Crimea and the Taman Peninsula. > > The local media published pictures and videos of the vessel in early July. > > Russians placed the decoy target of project 436Bis (R) near the Crimean bridge. > > It is a 45 m long and 8 m wide towed vessel built at the Sokolskaya Shipyard in the Nizhny Novgorod region. > > Reflectors are installed on nine masts that simulate the ship’s radar cross-section. The target is designed to test anti-ship missiles. > > Probably, the Russians are taking the discussions about the destruction of the Crimean Bridge in the Ukrainian information space seriously. > > Most likely, the decoy is located on the northern side of the bridge, with the expectation of the hit by coastal missile systems that are in the arsenal of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. In particular, the Russians probably expect the Harpoon anti-missile homing head to react to the dummy target. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6537 "2022-07-08T14:15:04Z")
The Crimea bridge could be too high value a target. I’d be concerned Kyiv would be turned into another bombed out ruin like Mariupol. It would be extremely satisfying to see that bridge knocked out. Cut off the supply chain from Russia. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6538 "2022-07-08T23:06:48Z")
Current US military aid. I don’t have the latest $400 million draw broken out but it includes 4 additional HIMARS - total of 12 to date - 8 in country. Also 1,000 rounds of high precision 155mm howitzer rounds. Perhaps Excalibur or a different model. United States security assistance committed to Ukraine includes: • Over 1,400 Stinger anti-aircraft systems; • Over 6,500 Javelin anti-armor systems; • Over 20,000 other anti-armor systems; • Over 700 Switchblade Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems; • 126 155mm Howitzers and up to 410,000 155mm artillery rounds; • 36,000 105mm artillery rounds; • 126 Tactical Vehicles to tow 155mm Howitzers; • 19 Tactical Vehicles to recover equipment; • Eight High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems and ammunition; • Two National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems (NASAMS); • 20 Mi-17 helicopters; • Hundreds of Armored High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles; • 200 M113 Armored Personnel Carriers; • Over 10,000 grenade launchers and small arms; • Over 59,000,000 rounds of small arms ammunition; • 75,000 sets of body armor and helmets; • 121 Phoenix Ghost Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems; • Laser-guided rocket systems; • Puma Unmanned Aerial Systems; • Unmanned Coastal Defense Vessels; • 26 counter-artillery radars; • Four counter-mortar radars; • Four air surveillance radars; • Two harpoon coastal defense systems; • 18 coastal and riverine patrol boats; • M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel munitions; • C-4 explosives and demolition equipment for obstacle clearing; • Tactical secure communications systems; • Thousands of night vision devices, thermal imagery systems, optics, and laser rangefinders; • Commercial satellite imagery services; • Explosive ordnance disposal protective gear; • Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear protective equipment; • Medical supplies to include first aid kits; • Electronic jamming equipment; • Field equipment and spare parts; • Funding for training, maintenance, and sustainment. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2022, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6539 "2022-07-08T23:35:45Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [Christo Grozev, Bellingcat:] > > [https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1545092557507629063](https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1545092557507629063) I get heavy “this is not even my final form” vibes. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6540 "2022-07-09T07:09:06Z")
Professional training should increase the odds of the recruits surviving the war. They may even be better trained then the newest Russian conscripts. It’s probably an accelerated course that combines basic combat training (BCT) and advanced individual training (AIT). Guardian blog > [@](#): > > ## Ukrainian soldiers arrive in UK for training > > The Ukrainian soldiers being trained in the UK have met UK defence secretary Ben Wallace, Press Association reports, at the start of their training, which is expected to last several weeks. > > Wallace said: “This ambitious new training programme is the next phase in the UK’s support to the Armed Forces of [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) in their fight against Russian aggression. Using the world-class expertise of the British Army we will help Ukraine to rebuild its forces and scale up its resistance as they defend their country’s sovereignty and their right to choose their own future.” > > The training will give volunteer recruits with little or no military experience the skills to be effective in frontline combat. Based on the UK’s basic soldier training, the course covers weapons handling, battlefield first aid, fieldcraft, patrol tactics and the law of armed conflict. > > The government has procured thousands of AK assault rifles for the programme, meaning Ukrainian soldiers can train on the weapons they will be using on the front line. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6541 "2022-07-09T11:32:22Z")
I wonder if the Brits are giving anyone partisan training. A little expertise in behind the lines sabotage for use in the Donbas, maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6542 "2022-07-09T13:17:09Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Putin has pulled a 67 year old general out of retirement who is as wide as he is tall. > > [General Pavel](https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/obese-russian-general-67-called-27326346) > > He makes Hermann Göring look thin. Someone looked intothis and discovered this guy is a retired border guard. Excellent detective work detailed in this Twitter thread: > ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6543 "2022-07-09T13:31:52Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Short version: Bridges aren’t easy to bring down from the air. Hitting it is going to be difficult for Ukraine without air superiority and no high precision bomb capability. And the idea of using Harpoons, an anti-ship missile, seems especially dubious. Not so much on account of the warhead (although, it’s a lot easier to put a hole in an unarmored ship than a bridge pylon, I suspect), but because it might not necessarily have the ability to discern a particular part of the bridge and lock onto it for a precision strike of the sort I imagine would be needed to bring down a bridge. Like, even if you can hit the bridge and have the warhead explode as desired, I would imagine you’d want multiple missiles to hit essentially the same handful of key structural components to actually bring about a collapse, rather than just put some potholes in the road here and there and have the bridge’s structural soundness be “questionable” for the next however many years (because something tells me Russia won’t give two shits if collapse could happen at any time: they will only care if it actually collapses, and not for loss of life, but for the disruption to their supply chain). ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2022, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6544 "2022-07-09T15:11:24Z")
Bridges tend to be solid structures designed to hold up a not-so-solid deck. You can continually poke holes in the deck and make it inoperable without taking the support structure down. It’s like destroying a piece of rail. Easy to replace but it shuts down the use of the line until repaired. And you can keep taking out small pieces of rail all day long. The trick is to do it just before a train hits it so not only does the rail need replacing but all the de-railed trains need to be removed. There are extra points for destroying the track repair equipment when it shows up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=323) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=325)