# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 331
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6665 "2022-07-18T19:22:43Z")
The US will continue helping, but it would be a lot easier to provide that help if they can access Ukraine via ground transport. Consider the beginning of the Gulf War. [Turkey denying the US permission to use it’s territory caused a lot of problems with the initial US deployment to Iraq](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-mar-02-fg-iraq2-story.html). If Poland or Germany starts to waver, it could cause a lot of problems. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6666 "2022-07-18T19:40:35Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > If Poland or Germany starts to waver, it could cause a lot of problems. I have no insight into the politics of either country, but from what I’ve read Poland sees the Ukraine war as a semi-existential fight. They’re one of the staunchest supporters of Ukraine from a mindset standpoint, because they don’t want to have anything to do with Russia ever again if they can help it. Germany, now … I could see them waffling this winter to a certain extent. Even so, I get the feeling the person on the street in the EU is (by and large) fully supportive of Ukraine and against Russia even in the face of economic hardship. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6667 "2022-07-18T19:42:14Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Leverage on who? The EU. I’m not sure how dependent Britain is for Russian fuel. The sanctions won’t work without united EU support. Germany is the most dependent. Markle bought into Putins bs. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6668 "2022-07-18T19:57:43Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The EU. I’m not sure how dependent Britain is for Russian fuel. > > The sanctions won’t work without united EU support. > > Germany is the most dependent. Markle bought into Putins bs. That doesn’t really affect Ukraine’s willingness to fight. Ukraine is not going to end the war because Germany is importing Russian gas. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6669 "2022-07-18T20:05:26Z")
One thing that I’ll note: Russia has leverage of it can pump, process, save deliver fuel. It has no such leverage of everyone knows that, that pipeline is offline. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6670 "2022-07-18T23:06:39Z")
Interesting chart of both sides artillery/missiles and ranges. .[https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FX5Qpx7WYAAL\_8x?format=jpg&name=large](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FX5Qpx7WYAAL_8x?format=jpg&name=large) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6671 "2022-07-18T23:25:28Z")
Some articles from the Sunday Times. > **[Moscow Signals a Shift to a More Aggressive Phase of Ukraine War](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/16/world/europe/russia-ukraine-donbas-shoigu-pause.html)** > > After a brief pause, the Russian military is ramping up activity “in all operational sectors” in the Donbas region, the defense minister said. > **[On Donetsk’s Front Line, Small Gains and Losses Impose a Heavy Toll](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/17/world/europe/ukraine-russia-donetsk-front-line.html)** > > Ukrainian soldiers say they live under almost constant Russian bombardment but dismiss any suggestion that they cede land. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2022, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6672 "2022-07-18T23:44:40Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I think the ship has sailed for NATO to fight in Ukraine. Yes, it has. And the ship has NATO equipment, intelligence, and training on board. Putin is fighting an ever larger supply of superior weapons against his ever shrinking inventory of older weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6673 "2022-07-19T02:42:15Z")
This is funny (in a manner of speaking). [The Russians Just Shot Down One Of Their Own Best Jets (msn.com)](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-russians-just-shot-down-one-of-their-own-best-jets/ar-AAZIHJM) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6674 "2022-07-19T02:48:12Z")
I added bolding. Ukraine’s artillery and missiles are becoming a problem for the Russians. I remember US forces went Scud Hunting in the Gulf War. Their mobility made them difficult to find and take out. ISW: [Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, July 18 | Institute for the Study of War](https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-july-18) > [@](#): > > **Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu’s July 18 meeting with the commander of the Eastern group of forces Lieutenant General Rustam Muradov supports ISW’s assessment that Moscow will not prioritize an attack to seize Slovyansk in this stage of the operation but will instead focus on seizing Siversk and Bakhmut.** [1] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) announced on July 18 that **Shoigu inspected the Eastern group and directed Muradov to prioritize the destruction of Ukrainian long-range missiles and artillery systems.** This is the first time ISW has observed explicit mention of the Eastern force grouping operating in Ukraine in this phase of the war. The Russian MoD previously reported that the Central and Southern force groups took part in the capture of Luhansk Oblast under the leadership of Colonel General Aleksandr Lapin and Army General Sergey Surovikin.[2] The Eastern group of forces is likely comprised of elements of the Russian Eastern Military District (EMD), which have been active along the Izyum axis in Kharkiv Oblast.[3] It is still unclear whether Muradov also directly controls operations around Kharkiv City. Muradov’s forces are operating in the Izyum-Slovyansk direction ostensibly with the objective of eventually seizing Slovyansk itself, and it is noteworthy that Shoigu did not direct Muradov to prioritize taking ground along this axis at this time. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6675 "2022-07-19T04:10:05Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > This is funny (in a manner of speaking). They are using their newest planes in the worst possible way. Flying low makes them easy targets. Even for Russian air defense. 😉 > [@](#): > > The Sukhoi Su-34 was supposed to change the Russian air force—and the Su-34M, even more-so. The twin-engine, twin-seat, supersonic fighter-bomber—a highly-evolved variant of the Su-27 air-superiority fighter—promised to usher in a new era of high-tech, precision bombing. > > Instead, the Su-34s mostly have flown into Ukraine lugging the same old unguided “dumb” bombs that older Russian planes carry. > > A military-wide shortage of precision-guided munitions—not to mention doctrine that conceives of aircraft essentially as flying artillery—forces Russian warplanes to fly low through the thickest Ukrainian air-defenses in order to have any chance of delivering their bombs with any degree of accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6676 "2022-07-19T11:51:07Z")
> [@](#): > > forces Russian warplanes to fly low through the thickest Ukrainian air-defenses And Russian air defenses. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6677 "2022-07-19T17:31:52Z")
Russia Says It’s Losing Because Ukraine Has Experimental Mutant Troops Created in Secret Biolabs > **[Russia Says It’s Losing Because Ukraine Has Experimental Mutant Troops...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-losing-because-ukraine-104546288.html)** > > Nevermind the myriad reports of shoddy equipment and Russian troops ditching the war, the real setback, according to lawmakers, was mutant Ukrainian soldiers. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6678 "2022-07-19T17:38:42Z")
So PGMs fired on shopping malls and apartments are okay but breeding troops to be bigger and meaner than ours is unfair. Got it. That’s right up there with those arcane symbols they were finding spray-painted a few months ago. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6679 "2022-07-19T18:12:48Z")
Excerpt from linked article: > “And we see: the cruelty and barbarity with which the military personnel of Ukraine behave, the crimes that they commit against the civilian population, those monstrous crimes that they commit against prisoners of war, confirm that this system for the control and creation of a cruel murder machine was implemented under the management of the United States,” Yarovaya was quoted telling reporters." This Yarovaya should seriously consider dropping off some resumes with Marjorie Taylor Greene or that Mypillow guy ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6680 "2022-07-19T18:13:40Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > So PGMs fired on shopping malls and apartments are okay but breeding troops to be bigger and meaner than ours is unfair. Got it. Let’s not forget the weaponization of time travel, so that those dastardly Ukrainians knew to prepare their mutant troops for the Russian invasion 20 years ago! ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6681 "2022-07-19T18:20:03Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [Russia Says It’s Losing Because Ukraine Has Experimental Mutant Troops Created in Secret Biolabs](https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-losing-because-ukraine-104546288.html) That headline is so misleading, compared to the content, that I would personally have to classify it as conspiracy mongering / propaganda. The article that they link to, as I understand it, is saying that Ukrainians are using drugs (e.g. stimulants) to enhance their effectiveness and that those drugs are provided by the USA. They can tell that, they say, because the Ukrainians have tested for a higher level of the sorts of diseases that you would get from sharing a needle with an American than you would expect from a normal person from that part of the world. That last sentence (about diseases) is almost certainly nothing more than Russian conspiracy mongering / propaganda but, otherwise, there’s nothing particularly implausible about the idea that the US might be providing something like Modafinil to Ukraine, to help their troops stay awake longer. (Note: Modafinil is a pill, not an injection, and if the US was shipping over Americans to share needles with then they’d be among the captures.) More importantly, none of that has to do with creating mutant human beings. This is like jumping from a false accusation that someone taught their dog to bite people - when they hadn’t - to accusing the false accuser of actually saying that the dog was a demonic vampire. If you want to point out how dishonest those other guys are, you aren’t making yourself look like no angel yourself by lying about their lies. I’d recommend dropping that as a news source. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6682 "2022-07-19T18:26:24Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Ukrainians knew to prepare their mutant troops for the Russian invasion 20 years ago! Even before they lost Crimea. Those bastards! It’s like they knew somehow. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6683 "2022-07-19T19:41:10Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > This Yarovaya should seriously consider dropping off some resumes with Marjorie Taylor Greene or that Mypillow guy I’m getting flashbacks to Baghdad Bob. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > That headline is so misleading, compared to the content, that I would personally have to classify it as conspiracy mongering / propaganda. Yeah, that’s a pretty bad headline. I also don’t think Ukraine needs the US to supply them with extra strength No-Doz. I’m pretty sure uppers existed in Ukraine before the war. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6684 "2022-07-19T20:03:52Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > More importantly, none of that has to do with creating mutant human beings. The absurd hyperbole is in the original [article](https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/5469617). Among other things, it says: > “And those doping that they are still given in order to neutralize the last traces of human consciousness and turn them into the cruelest and deadliest monsters, also confirm this,” said Irina Yarovaya I’m not going to fault the Yahoo article for perhaps not correctly interpreting the nature of absurdist Russian propaganda. Did the Russians really mean “monsters” literally? Do the Russians even know what they’re saying, or do they just spout whatever over the top garbage that comes to mind? Is “mutant” really an unfair characterization of “turn them into … monsters”? Who cares? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=330) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=332)