# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 332
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6685 "2022-07-20T03:25:10Z")
Imagine what a bunch of poorly trained troops could do using their advanced weaponry. [Newsweek](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-shoots-su-34-bomber-luhansk-ukraine-claims-1725524) - Russia Accidentally Shoots Down Their Own $36M Su-34 Bomber, Ukraine Claims A $36 million Russian Su-34 bomber was reportedly shot down by Russia’s own forces over Ukraine’s eastern Luhansk region, Ukrainian media outlets claimed on Monday. Of course that’s a Ukrainian claim that can’t be verified but they have a video that should be verifiable against previous stock footage. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6686 "2022-07-20T03:35:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Imagine what a bunch of poorly trained troops could do using their advanced weaponry. I’m not sure that is entirely a training issue - might just be a technology problem (could also be both). Russian air defense systems seem to be pretty good, they probably poured more resources into them than any other nation during the Cold War. But it’s been known since at least the war in Georgia that have a serious flaw with IFF, particularly when fighting an opponent equipped with a lot of the same aircraft designs. Ukrainian [Su-27](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-27#/media/File:Sukhoi_Su-27SKM_at_MAKS-2005_airshow.jpg) or Russian [Su-34](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-34#/media/File:MAKS2015part1-10_(cropped).jpg)? They are based on the same air frame and Russian operators/systems may have some difficulty distinguishing air forces. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6687 "2022-07-20T03:56:51Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > They are based on the same air frame and Russian operators/systems may have some difficulty distinguishing air forces. I’m sure the new recruits will fit in nicely. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6688 "2022-07-20T05:22:58Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Imagine what a bunch of poorly trained troops could do using their advanced weaponry. > > [Newsweek](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-shoots-su-34-bomber-luhansk-ukraine-claims-1725524) > > - Russia Accidentally Shoots Down Their Own $36M Su-34 Bomber, Ukraine Claims > > A $36 million Russian Su-34 bomber was reportedly shot down by Russia’s own forces over Ukraine’s eastern Luhansk region, Ukrainian media outlets claimed on Monday. Did they shoot down another one after I posted about it? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6689 "2022-07-20T13:27:38Z")
To be fair, there has to be similar cases on the Ukrainian side. Warm bodies are at a premium in this war. Site: [‘They hunt us like stray cats’: pro-Russia separatists step up forced conscription as losses mount | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/20/pro-russian-separatists-step-up-forced-conscription-as-losses-mount) > [@](#): > > Matviichuk read out one letter she received from a man in the Luhansk region who had been hiding in his flat to avoid forced conscription. “He says: ‘How can I make Russia accountable in court? This is a violation of my rights. Since February I haven’t been able go out in the street because there are patrol cars in my town searching for men without exception. They are hunting us like stray cats. The Chechen [fighers] are helping them search for men on the list.” > > Describing the circumstances of the video, Matviichuk said it appeared to have been shot after a period in June when the conscription squads had been relatively inactive, and at the beginning of a new wave of forced conscriptions. > > “It appears that they started looking for men again around 23 June, putting up checkpoints on exits to towns on highways, with the war commissariat issuing notices to people in reserved occupations like factories,” she said. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6690 "2022-07-20T14:02:07Z")
I’ve seen speculation the Russian Su-34 wandered outside its corridor. Air Defense is told a mission will be flying from 22:00-23:30 at 30,000 - 32000 ft. Anything in that corridor is friendly. Just speculation. IFF may have been turned off. There’s several things thay coulx go wrong. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6691 "2022-07-20T16:00:58Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > There’s several things thay coulx go wrong. Russian air defense operators don’t have a great history of target discipline. > **[Malaysia Airlines Flight 17](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17)** > > Attacks on civilians > Related ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6692 "2022-07-20T16:54:46Z")
Four additional HIMARS to Ukraine. New total will be 16 in country. The figures are tied to training crews, not availability of weapon systems or GMLRS rounds. Recent announcement from Sec Def Austin. > **[Four more High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems going to Ukraine, Pentagon...](https://thehill.com/policy/3567107-four-more-high-mobility-artillery-rocket-systems-going-to-ukraine-pentagon-chief-says/)** > > The U.S. will be sending Ukraine four additional High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) in another security assistance package to be announced later this week, Defense Secretary Lloyd Aust… ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6693 "2022-07-20T16:56:31Z")
**July 20: Update** about that Antonivsky bridge just beside Kherson. It was **hit a 2nd day in a row with HIMARS**. At least 10 or maybe 12 missiles have hit the bridge so far, with many holes of various sizes. It is now closed to traffic. > **[Antonovsky bridge attacked in Kherson - Kyiv Post](https://www.kyivpost.com/russias-war/vital-bridge-attacked-in-kherson-as-ukrainian-army-goes-on-counter-offensive.html)** > > The Armed Forces of Ukraine have partly destroyed the Antonovsky bridge by shelling ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6694 "2022-07-20T17:35:25Z")
I’d like to see satellite photos of the bridge. There probably are holes in the bridge deck. That would stop traffic. It would take a extremely accurate shot to hit a concrete bridge support. A laser guided missile would do it. If someone in the river pointed the laser. Probably not a survivable mission. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6695 "2022-07-20T18:28:52Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’d like to see satellite photos of the bridge [Battle Of Kherson - Ukrainian GMLRS Rockets Hit Antonovsky Bridge In Kherson - 19th JULY 2022 11:30 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xglYlqljebE) Not a satellite photo, but this video was taken yesterday. I understand the bridge has been attacked again today. HIMARS systems are evidently highly accurate. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6696 "2022-07-20T18:35:50Z")
The rockets are punching holes in the deck. I guess the bridge such a critical logistical target that it’s worth using HIMARS. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6697 "2022-07-20T18:44:55Z")
The bridge should have been blown up in February. Because it wasn’t the Russians were able to take possession of Kherson. Kherson, is located on the north side of the Dnipro River. Losing this bridge will complicate Russian efforts to resupply the troops around the city. You may also recall a couple days ago seeing a [major ammo depot exploding](https://www.kyivpost.com/russias-war/another-russian-ammunition-warehouse-blows-up-in-kherson.html) in this vicinity, so the re-supply is likely badly needed right now. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6698 "2022-07-20T18:56:30Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > HIMARS systems are evidently highly accurate. [https://man.fas.org/dod-101/sys/land/mlrs-g.htm](https://man.fas.org/dod-101/sys/land/mlrs-g.htm) During development of the guided M30 rocket, they integrated… > [@](#): > > Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver and antenna to demonstrate near precision delivery (5 meters CEP). (“CEP” means “Circular Error Probable”, a measure of ballistic accuracy. [Circular error probable - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_error_probable)) So, not bad precision for an super long range artillery weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6699 "2022-07-20T19:09:14Z")
There are only two roads crossing the Dneiper river that connect the Russian fascist-occupied areas north of the river to the south. [![](https://i.imgur.com/jvSDgiO.png) ](https://i.imgur.com/jvSDgiO.png) Antonivka Road Bridge: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/01\_09\_2006\_08\_23\_Kherson.JPG/440px-01\_09\_2006\_08\_23\_Kherson.JPG](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ac/01_09_2006_08_23_Kherson.JPG/440px-01_09_2006_08_23_Kherson.JPG) > **[Antonivka Road Bridge](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonivka_Road_Bridge)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > The Antonivka Road Bridge, also known as the Antonivskyi Bridge (Ukrainian: Антонівський міст, romanized: Antonivskyi mist, pronounced \[ɐnˈtɔn⁽ʲ⁾iu̯sʲkɪj m⁽ʲ⁾ist\]), was a box girder bridge that crossed the Dnieper river in Kherson, Kherson Oblast, southern Ukraine. > The bridge had been planned since 1977. It opened on 24 December 1985. It was located in the town of Antonivka, Kherson Raion, Kherson Oblast and connected Kherson to Oleshky and Hola... Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant Dam: [![](https://i.tmgrup.com.tr/anews/v1/2022/02/26/images-show-russian-forces-near-ukrainian-hydroelectric-power-plant-maxar-1645906747701.jpg) ](https://i.tmgrup.com.tr/anews/v1/2022/02/26/images-show-russian-forces-near-ukrainian-hydroelectric-power-plant-maxar-1645906747701.jpg) > **[Kakhovka Hydroelectric Power Plant](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakhovka_Hydroelectric_Power_Plant)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > The Kakhovka Hydroelectric Station is a run-of-river power plant on the Dnieper River in Nova Kakhovka, Ukraine. Nova Kakhovka is a port city located on the reservoir's southern bank. The primary purposes of the dam are hydroelectric power generation, irrigation and navigation. It is the 6th and the last dam in the Dnieper reservoir cascade. The deep water channel allows shipping up and down river. The facility also includes a winter garden. > Th... Nice occupied territory you have there. It would be a shame if it were cut off, so there’s no way in or out… ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6700 "2022-07-20T19:15:49Z")
Like the invasion in general, I suspect that’s a factor they hadn’t given sufficient weight in the planning. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2022, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6701 "2022-07-20T22:09:27Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Not a satellite photo, but this video was taken yesterday. There is a slightly longer cut of the same [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0zmwTmNwxw) (1:09) on that page that shows cars driving on the bridge. Not sure I’d like to drive anything heavy across the bridge. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6702 "2022-07-21T14:23:59Z")
A while back I saw a post showing the use of fake civilians in Russian-occupied Donbas. The same people would appear in different unrelated photos or videos pretending to be different people. Here are some more examples involving Putin: > ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6703 "2022-07-21T14:28:39Z")
General Milley refutes claims by the Russians that they have destroyed any HIMARS: > ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2022, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6704 "2022-07-21T14:37:22Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > There is a slightly longer cut of the same [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0zmwTmNwxw) (1:09) on that page that shows cars driving on the bridge. Holy crap. I can’t believe those people are driving across that bridge. And yeah, driving any sort of military equipment over it would be a real sphincter-tightener. On another bridge-related note … how low are those guardrails?! Even without the holes punched in the decking, the bridge doesn’t seem safe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=331) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=333)