# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 338
**Author:** ![Kelevra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/97f17d/32.png) [@Kelevra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelevra)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6805 "2022-07-28T18:13:47Z")
Are there any publicly available recent satellite images of Ukraine? I’ve looked at google earth and it seems to be nothing recent (the Mariupol steel plant looks undamaged) . I keep seeing images of destroyed buildings but would like to know how widespread the damage is. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6806 "2022-07-28T18:47:29Z")
> [@Kelevra](#): > > Are there any publicly available recent satellite images of Ukraine? I’m sure there are lots of satellite images depicting this, but they’re probably in the hands of the military for the purposes of conducting Battle Damage Assessments. I don’t know of any ‘after’ images of large urban areas that are widely available to the public. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6807 "2022-07-28T19:18:16Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Simple fact is, that with a motivated population and extensive external support to the defender, it’s much more difficult to take and occupy ground than it is to defend and re-take that ground from a poorly motivated force. Good observation. Not to mention the need for the occupier to maintain and rely on supply lines. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6808 "2022-07-28T19:50:40Z")
> [@Kelevra](#): > > I’ve looked at google earth At a scale that Google Earth would show damage to urban facilities, it’s not satellite photography. It would have to be aircraft, and Google is not commissioning photo reconnaissance overflights of a war zone. The only ones who might would be the Ukrainians, and they probably get what they need from NATO reconnaissance intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6809 "2022-07-28T21:56:20Z")
Maybe I have posted this in another thread. I think that what happened with Putin and Ukraine is that Putin assumed Trump would be re-elected, and would not help Ukraine at all. Trump did say that it was a genius move by Putin. Of course Trump is just a moron, and subservient to Putin (almost typed that Trump is subservient to poutine. That works too) The gears where already turning, plans (such as they where) where already in place. Putin could not stop the momentum. Putin had to follow through, even though Trump was not re-elected. Putin was counting on Trump being the President of the US. Trump already tried to extort Zelenskyy to prevent weapons going to Ukraine (and Trumps political self serving BS). If Trump was President today, there would be no military equipment going to Ukraine. NATO would be a bit… confused. Shit, Trump said that he wants the US out of NATO. Trumps re-election, That’s what Putin counted on. ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6810 "2022-07-28T22:51:03Z")
Except that the invasion happened _this_ year. There should have been no question about who would be in office in 2022. I don’t believe any military plan has a greater than one year unstoppable lead up period. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6811 "2022-07-28T22:55:10Z")
There’s a video that’s been going viral on Reddit since this morning, showing a Russian soldier using a knife to…mutilate a live Ukrainian POW (I won’t go into greater detail.) It should have the effect of further stiffening Ukrainian resistance now, now that they know the fate that awaits them if they surrender. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6812 "2022-07-28T22:56:09Z")
Right. The plans were already in place. Putin hoped that Trump would win a second term, because he knew that Trump would A) Try his hardest to weaken NATO, perhaps even pulling the United States out of the alliance; and B) That Trump would do his bidding, so the invasion would be a cake walk. When Trump lost, Putin put his already-laid plans in motion anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6813 "2022-07-28T23:06:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > mutilate a live Ukrainian POW > [@Velocity](#): > > It should have the effect of further stiffening hmm… ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2022, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6814 "2022-07-28T23:43:48Z")
Russia is trying to divert Ukrainian resources away from Kherson. Imho Site: [Russian forces fire barrage of missiles at northern Ukraine from Belarus | Ukraine | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/28/russian-forces-fire-barrage-missiles-northern-ukraine-from-belarus) > [@](#): > > A barrage of 25 missiles has been fired by Russian forces at northern regions of Ukraine from neighbouring [Belarus](https://www.theguardian.com/world/belarus) as the Ukrainian southern offensive appears to be gathering pace. > > The early morning wave of missile strikes launched from the territory of Russia’s key ally hit targets in the Chernihiv region, including an apartment block, as well as locations outside Kyiv and around the city of Zhytomyr, according to Ukrainian officials and Belarusian opposition figures. > > The Chernihiv regional governor, Viacheslav Chaus, [said nine missiles had struck](https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/jul/28/russia-ukraine-war-live-news-kyiv-region-hit-by-rocket-attack-governor-says-fight-to-liberate-kherson-has-begun-ukraine-claims?page=with:block-62e21d1d8f08ecc573bc1175#block-62e21d1d8f08ecc573bc1175) close to the village of Honcharivska with some falling in the forest nearby. > The strikes came as [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) celebrated Statehood Day for the first time. In a national message, the president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, said: “Restless morning. Again – missile terror. We will not give up. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6815 "2022-07-29T02:09:22Z")
Are there sanctions against Belarus and if not they should inherit all of the Russian sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6816 "2022-07-29T08:01:43Z")
Sounds like Ben is reading our comments. 🙂 Russian tactics reminds me of the Roman phalanx. Imagine a 300ft wide lawn mower with 200 exposed blades and 100’s of long, sharpened, spears. Approaching your town one small step at a time. Guardian blog > [@](#): > > **The UK defence minister Ben Wallace has said that Russian forces in [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) are in “a very difficult spot”, and said that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s strategy is akin to putting his forces through a meat-grinder.** > > He told listeners of the BBC’s Today programme in the UK that “by any benchmark, [Russia](https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia) is in a position where it hasn’t achieved its major objectives. It has taken huge numbers of losses and casualties.” > > In his opinion, he said Russia was “certainly not able to occupy the country. They may be able to carry on killing indiscriminately and destroying as they go, but that is not a victory.” > > “Putin hasn’t changed from his desire to occupy the whole of Ukraine, take Kyiv and Odesa,” he said, adding “but his army has been effectively crippled by huge amounts of losses. Over 25,000 dead. Maybe twice as many injured.” > (snipped material ) > He likened the current tactics to the first world war, saying “When I talk about meat grinder, which is what they’re doing, is that they are resorting to a sort of Soviet tactic of just a massive Russian meat grinder moving very slowly metres, not miles, a day, in some parts. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6817 "2022-07-29T09:50:12Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Russia hasn’t achieved its major objectives. It has taken huge numbers of losses and casualties.” > he said Russia was “certainly not able to occupy the country. They may be able to carry on killing indiscriminately and destroying as they go, but that is not a victory.” Totally flattening cities and turning parts of Ukraine into scorched earth may not be the complete victory that Putin wanted, but it is still a victory. And Putin seems quite capable of carrying it out. It costs him nothing, and he can keep it up for a long, long time. As for the costs–sure, we western analysts love to read about the huge numbers of dead Russian troops and say “this can’t go on–the cost is too high”. But Russia is not a western country with western morals. There is plenty of cannon fodder still available.-- a quarter million or maybe even a half million men who can easily be drafted. And we western analysts love to talk about the high-tech weapons that we’re giving Ukraine, and Russia doesn’t have. But all Russia needs is its tens of thousands of old-fashioned artillery pieces, with millions of shells. World War II technology is enough to meet Putin’s needs. Even if he fails to conquer Ukraine, he can destroy it. For Putin, that’s a victory. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6818 "2022-07-29T09:52:19Z")
For the last few weeks, Russia’s artillery fires have gone way, way down, likely as a result of Ukraine successfully targeting Russian ammunition depots. So it’s very possible that Russia can’t even do that anymore. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6819 "2022-07-29T10:01:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Russia’s artillery fires have gone way, way down, likely as a result of Ukraine successfully targeting Russian ammunition depots. I’ve read that too But it seems to me that for the Russians, there is an obvious solution–move the ammunition out of the large depots and spread it around in smaller units. The Russian military is a very rigid bureaucracy that resists change, but even they should be able to figure out the old adage about keeping all your eggs in one basket… ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6820 "2022-07-29T10:03:42Z")
That makes it harder to deliver to the front lines, which means less ammunition per day for artillery. So fewer artillery fires. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6821 "2022-07-29T10:09:34Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Right. The plans were already in place. Putin hoped that Trump would win a second term, because he knew that Trump would A) Try his hardest to weaken NATO, perhaps even pulling the United States out of the alliance; and B) That Trump would do his bidding, so the invasion would be a cake walk. When Trump lost, Putin put his already-laid plans in motion anyway. I wonder if Putin believed the Republican propaganda that Biden was ineffective, doddering, and sliding into dementia and assumed he would not effectively rally NATO? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6822 "2022-07-29T12:24:55Z")
I’ve been reading about Germany’s option to keep their Nuclear Power plants online. Three were supposed to close this year. It’s mind boggling that Russia’s Gas shut off plans hasn’t changed totally Germany’s mind. The choice of being Putin’s slave or fuel independent shouldn’t be difficult. I hope for government stability the ones recently closed can be brought back online. A population that’s cold and uncomfortable will demand changes. It would take time to safely restart the off line power plants. > **[Gas crisis spurs Germany to mull extending life of nuclear plants](https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/gas-crisis-prompts-germany-consider-extending-life-three-remaining-nuclear-2022-07-18/)** > > Germany may extend the life of its three remaining nuclear power plants, the economy ministry said on Monday, as public support rises in the face of a possible cut-off of Russian gas. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6823 "2022-07-29T12:36:16Z")
Interesting Tech. I hope it’s been throughly field tested. Site: [Germany lends more support to Ukraine forces with tanks pledge | Germany | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/29/germany-bridge-layer-tanks-ukraine-forces-howitzer-sale-authorisation) > [@](#): > > Germany’s defence minister has decided to deliver 16 Biber bridge-layer tanks to Ukrainian forces, the ministry said on Friday. > > “The Biber will enable Ukrainian troops to cross waters or obstacles in combat,” the ministry said in a statement. “The delivery of the first six systems will take place this year, starting in autumn. Ten more systems will follow next year.” > > The Biber tanks are armoured support vehicles equipped with a bridge-laying system instead of the turret, which can be deployed to aid troops in crossing streams, ditches or other obstacles on the battlefield ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6824 "2022-07-29T12:40:02Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > The Russian military is a very rigid bureaucracy that resists change, but even they should be able to figure out the old adage about keeping all your eggs in one basket… Except that you’re not accounting for the corruption and general incompetence of the Russians. Split one big ammo dump into a hundred small dumps, and a certain percentage of the Russian army will see this as an opportunity to steal a bunch of stuff from the more poorly-guarded locations. And now that you need guards at 99 more locations, it’s a near-certainty that a significant portion of those guards will be incompetent losers who get drunk and play poker instead of doing their jobs, as soon as the officer in charge is out of sight. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=337) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=339)