# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/661 "2022-03-01T06:45:27Z")
I really feel for the Ukrainians. I always supported them of course but I did think they might just give up and let Putin take over, especially after what happened in Crimea. I will say I underestimated them. I mean vastly, vastly underestimated them. I have seen a member of their Parliament interviewed about how them are all armed and fighting. Could you imagine Congress fighting in a war? Maybe about 1/10 of them would take up weapons but most would run and hide. I also had no idea Zelensky was such a badass. I have never seen a world leader’s reputation skyrocket so fast. “I need ammunition, not a ride” is now a classic. Finally, the fact that they are using Twisted Sister’s “We’re Not Gonna Take It” as their theme song really makes me smile. Dee Snyder is apparently 1/4 Ukrainian and has given them his blessing while taking a shot at the antimaskers/antivaxxers who he did NOT want to use the song last year. I do feel that Putin is so unstable that he cannot be stopped but I am encouraged by the fact that the whole rest of the world except Belarus and China seems to be against him and it feels darn good having all of the NATO countries pulling together and everybody already helping the refugees (and Jose Andres is already on the Polish/Ukrainian border feeding people and is apparently heading to Romania next). ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/662 "2022-03-01T07:19:22Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > and having him lift sanctions? I’m pretty sure Trump saying, “Hey, guys, let’s let Russia off the hook” will have very little effect on a lot of other countries. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/663 "2022-03-01T07:26:41Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Stories I see are the whole UN membership will vote on the resolution condemning the Ukraine invasion that Russia vetoed in the UN Security Council. It’s a non-binding resolution that’s expected to pass later this week. I haven’t seen anything about booting Russia from the UN. IIRC, Ukraine has made the argument that the General Assembly could vote that the Soviet Union’s seat on the Security Council is vacant and that Russia is not entitled to fill it, along the lines of when China’s seat was taken from the ROC amd given to the PRC. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/664 "2022-03-01T07:54:59Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So it seems inevitable, as a practical matter, that Russia is going to take over militarily. It’s possible that they can take Ukraine, but I don’t think they can keep it. Any puppet regime they install is not going to be accepted as legitimate, and they’re going to wind up having to occupy the country long-term while fighting an unrelenting insurgency with no endgame in sight, all while their economy continues to crumble, they keep losing men and materiel, and the Russian citizenry become more and more unwilling with what the war is costing them. Zelenskyy has no doubt set up contingencies for who is to succeed him if he’s killed or captured, and it’s going to be that leader that the military, police, and people regard as their president. Best endgame they get is declaring victory, keeping the two eastern territories, and withdrawing. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/665 "2022-03-01T08:29:00Z")
Not saying Russia would do it, but if they did use WMDs like sarin or VX on Ukraine, maybe that could trigger NATO to decide direct intervention was worth it. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/666 "2022-03-01T08:47:02Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > There are so many American military assets meant specifically for making a tasty meal of long convoys like this…sigh And lots of Russian assets designed to turn those American assets into scrap metal. “_How long can an A-10 survive over modern Russian formations with IADS, and how will the latter fare against American SEAD operations_” are questions I would rather not find out the answer to. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/667 "2022-03-01T08:53:25Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So it seems inevitable, as a practical matter, that Russia is going to take over militarily. > How likely is it that Russia/Putin will be able to wait out international outrage once that happens? Or has their economy and reputation taken such a huge blow already that it would take too long for businesses and nations to decide they like having Russia’s money and resources more than not having it? I assume this was the original plan, When inflation and energy bills begin to bite their populations, which should be sometime over the summer for Asia and the late Autumn for Europe/N America. > but it isn’t feasible anymore, is it? It seems like things have gone too far beyond that. Most likely outcome will be an ever expanding series of “exceptions” carved out to the sanctions regime, eventually being big enough to sail an aircraft carrier through, sideways. The above are answers to your specific questions. More generally, its a game of chicken right now, and both are betting the other side blinks first. A lot depends on how the worlds most powerful man, President Xi, decides to react. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/668 "2022-03-01T08:55:24Z")
Not likely, no. But imagine that also Putin pays off Fox, OAN, etc. to boost him. Their viewers never hear anything but the Russian government line. That could sway voters, which in turn sways the Republican Congresspeople. With them _and_ Trump on Putin’s side, US sanctions are history, and they can work together pressure other countries to follow suit on threat of their own sanctions or something like that. Yes, this is incredibly unlikely to happen and work, but like I said, it might be the only halfway plausible shot Putin has. The only problem is that I’m not sure he has two plus years or the resources available to actually do it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/669 "2022-03-01T10:20:33Z")
Poland and Bulgaria have donated 56 MiG-29s and 14 Su-25s to the Ukrainian airforce. The Ukrainian pilots have already arrived in Poland to pick these up and will fly them into Ukraine. > **[European plan to donate fighter jets to Ukraine collapses](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/28/ukrainian-pilots-arrive-in-poland-to-pick-up-donated-fighter-jets-00012560)** > > The dissolution of the deal comes as European countries lined up Monday to announce new weapons packages for Ukraine, from anti-armor and anti-air rockets to artillery and medical supplies. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/670 "2022-03-01T10:38:44Z")
This morning on Freedom Square, Kharkiv: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/pq6nUd8xHgk/maxresdefault.jpg "Ukraine: missile hits central Kharkiv building as Russian attacks continue") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq6nUd8xHgk) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/671 "2022-03-01T10:39:25Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > When inflation and energy bills begin to bite their populations, which should be sometime over the summer for Asia and the late Autumn for Europe/N America. Russia is not a very powerful or important country, economically speaking. Its economy is smaller than Canada’s or Italy’s, and nobody’s afraid of _them_. Yes, it provides oil and gas, but so do other countries. The West and Asia will do just fine without it. Russia needs the rest of the world a lot more than the rest of the rest of the world needs Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/672 "2022-03-01T10:43:44Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I am hoping both Russia and Belarus are bearing the brunt of cyber attacks unheard of. Our guys should be as good as theirs are and lack of news does not mean lack of action. If they really wanted to piss off Lukashenko, they would hack the television station and broadcast pictures of the back of his head. > [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Damn! I hope this all cleared up by Christmas so we don’t all have to boycott _The Nutcracker_ . At least it’s out of copyright, so you don’t have to worry about royalties going back to Tchaikovsky. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/673 "2022-03-01T10:52:01Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The UN has bypassed the security council and is going to vote on whether or not Russia remains in the UN. I have not seen that in the news. Interesting. I didn’t think they could do that, especially to a permanent member of the Security Council. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/674 "2022-03-01T10:59:31Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > OK, enough picking of nits. On the air front, two C17’s are returning to base from flights to Rzesnow, Poland Whose C17s? What base? Where? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/675 "2022-03-01T11:07:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Russia is not a very powerful or important country, economically speaking. Its economy is smaller than Canada’s or Italy’s, and nobody’s afraid of _them_ . Venices economy was far bigger than France or Austria’s. Didn’t help them much in the long run. GDP is a useful metric but it can blind people. > Yes, it provides oil and gas, but so do other countries [Its one of the worlds largest exporter of agricultural products.](https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2022/2/27/22950805/russia-ukraine-food-prices-hunger-invasion-war). Regrettably, Ukraine is second in most groups. Europe and Asia are filled to the brim with countries which need food imports to feed themselves. Plus the worlds biggest manufacturer of fertilizer, so its not that someone else could take up the slack and we are fast nearing the Northern cutting and souther planting season so this years a write off anyway,. Hope we are all ready for some massive inflation. > The West and Asia will do just fine without it. The Singaporean commodities traders I spent the morning Zooming with had a different view. Time shall tell who is right. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/676 "2022-03-01T11:13:15Z")
It was already an issue [before the current sanctions](https://www.business-standard.com/article/international/food-inflation-risks-balloon-as-prices-of-wheat-to-palm-oil-soar-122022400493_1.html). You are talking about massive price increases in staple food and much much more inflation. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/677 "2022-03-01T11:31:28Z")
My question about how long it takes to get supplies into Ukraine has partly been answered. Starlink receivers arrived about 15 hours ago: [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMtcDMwWUAAg96F?format=jpg) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMtcDMwWUAAg96F?format=jpg) The vice-President of Ukraine publicly reached out to Elon Musk to ask for Starlink on 26th Feb. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/678 "2022-03-01T11:41:15Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > The vice-President of Ukraine publicly reached out to Elon Musk to ask for Starlink on 26th Feb. Marking the first time in recorded history that Elon Musk actually did something helpful. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/679 "2022-03-01T12:04:11Z")
Well, how much did he charge them? ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/680 "2022-03-01T12:52:54Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > a sense of disbelief that the leader of any major country could be such a blatantly ruthless murderous thug. My wife and I were talking about this. How the hell can just one wack-job do so much damage and violence and, if the west becomes too meddlesome, essentially threaten the planet with nuclear war? And the west, IMO, is in a real bind here. At my gut, I truly believe that NATO should be on Ukrainian soil and in their airspace ASAP. But then there are Putin’s threats. But if we do nothing he could possibly just move on to the next ex-Soviet country, and on and on until he’s happy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=35)