# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 340
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6845 "2022-07-29T22:59:16Z")
I hope this grain agreement works. They finally got insurance for the cargo. Let’s see if Russia will act responsibly and adhere to the agreement. It would be an important first step in working with the UN. > **[Ukraine waiting for UN go-ahead to get grain ships away](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/29/ukraine-grain-ships-un-shipping-insurance)** > > Kyiv waiting for UN as news about insurance cover adds to hopes of shipments leaving soon > [@](#): > > “We have resolved practically all the technical questions [on our side] … we have provided the UN some options,” said Kubrakov of the ship routes. He said it now depended on how the UN and Turkey facilitate the deal. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6846 "2022-07-29T23:08:07Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Do you mean the Biber specifically, or self-propelled bridging systems in general? > > The Biber Armored Vehicle Launched Bridge (AVLB) has been in widespread NATO service since the late 1970s. The idea of AVLBs goes back to World War II I wasn’t familiar with the vehicle. I looked at images on Google. It’s pretty impressive engineering. > **[Germany sends 16 armored bridgelayers to Ukrainian army](https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-defense/3539760-germany-sends-16-armored-bridgelayers-to-ukrainian-army.html)** > > German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht greenlighted the transfer of 16 Biber armored bridgelayers to the Land Forces of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. — Ukrinform. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2022, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6847 "2022-07-29T23:24:40Z")
I understand there’s also the issue of clearing mines to deal with as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6848 "2022-07-30T00:52:31Z")
Some good information sources on the Ukraine war and other current events. > **[Military Summary](https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUnc496-PPmFZVKlYxUnToA/videos)** > > This channel provides objective information about the military conflict between Ukraine and the Russian Federation. > We condemn any aggression in Ukraine. Very detailed daily updates specifically of the Ukraine war. [https://odysee.com/@AlexanderMercouris:a](https://odysee.com/@AlexanderMercouris:a) A lot of Ukraine war and other current events. [https://odysee.com/@theduran:e](https://odysee.com/@theduran:e) Along with the previous channel host. Similar range of coverage. I appreciate these sites as the commentators are careful to give you an idea of how firm they think the facts are, as well as the sources. Often saying they may be shaky. [https://odysee.com/@SouthFront:4](https://odysee.com/@SouthFront:4) Very short concise blurbs of current military events. Unpredictable as to what side they may favor? I compare to other sources. Of course the more mainstream media as well. I consider it all and try to make my best guess as to what is actually happening. Some are quick and easy. Some take time to view and digest. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6849 "2022-07-30T01:27:38Z")
A quick scan through your links strongly suggests they are somewhat poorly disguised propagandists for Putin and his enablers. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6850 "2022-07-30T01:27:40Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > If Putin dies from violence, it will be internal forces that kill him, not external. Maybe he could be persuaded to visit the front to raise the troops’ morale. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6851 "2022-07-30T01:36:52Z")
So glad for that well researched and thought out reply. Going forward I will give your thoughts their due weight. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6852 "2022-07-30T01:40:33Z")
You’ve been championing Russia for this entire war of agression that Putin embarked upon. There is no “both sides” in this war. The leader of a big country decided he wants to swallow up a smaller neighbor. You’ve even cited Russian state media! So you’ll forgive me if I view your sources with skepticism. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6853 "2022-07-30T02:16:51Z")
I am not championing Russia. This is a terrible war. A waste of life and destruction. I personally think Russia could have been a bit more patient regarding negotiating about NATO membership and even pressing more diplomatically over actually enforcing the Minsk agreement. But just a bit. If that failed. I would have hoped Russia would have only fully mobilized into only into the Donbass areas that had declared independence. Russia for whatever rational decided to come in on a wider basis at first. And also decided to go further than the Donbass in the south. I am not championing Russia. Just relating what the actual situation is. It was always going to be a very lopsided fight, favoring Russia. It is war. Terrible things will happen by circumstance or design by both sides. In many cases it is in desperation at the moment. Not evil intent. Nations have their security concerns. All through history a nation will go to war when those concerns are pressed far enough. I hope we can at some point get past this. That no nation will seek to dominate another with force or threat of force. But that has not come to pass yet. I wish that there would be an immediate ceasefire. The Donbass areas be granted independence. Russian forces withdraw. Crimea hold another referendum to ensure it be validated internationally. Ukraine and Russia sign a nonaggression pact. The Donbass and Crimea regions become a free trade zone between West and East. Ukraine nation be neutral. I wish all nations be neutral. I can dream… Russia and some other countries pour in reconstruction efforts to all parts of Ukraine and Donbass. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6854 "2022-07-30T02:20:22Z")
Also. You did not even have time to view one full episode of the sources I suggested. Except the one that I noted has very short episodes. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6855 "2022-07-30T02:33:54Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Nations have their security concerns. If Russia is so concerned that they need some buffer zones, they can use their own territory for that. Spin off Belgorod, Kursk, etc. into independent nations, write “must never, ever join NATO” into their constitutions, and Russia can have all the buffer region they want. Ukraine or anyone else shouldn’t give up a single inch of their territory just to appease a pathocracy like Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6856 "2022-07-30T02:35:24Z")
Why should Ukraine sign a non-aggression pact? In what way have they been aggressive? Are Ukrainian armies in Russia? ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6857 "2022-07-30T02:44:22Z")
So every nation can peel off a layer of the citizens and land on their borders for this? So will your country do this first as a gesture to encourage others to do it too? Or is this only applicable to Russia and other nations that are not favored by you? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6858 "2022-07-30T02:47:26Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > If that failed. I would have hoped Russia would have only fully mobilized into only into the Donbass areas that had declared independence. So you’re OK with a nation invading another country in a dispute that has nothing to do with the invading country? > [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > Why should Ukraine sign a non-aggression pact? In what way have they been aggressive? Are Ukrainian armies in Russia? Also, this. > [@Kedikat](#): > > So every nation can peel off a layer of the citizens and land on their borders for this? Why does Russia need a buffer zone with Ukraine? ‘Oh, they want a buffer between Russia and NATO countries!’ Only… if Russia took Ukraine, they’d have NATO on their border! What then? Invade Poland? ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6859 "2022-07-30T02:51:24Z")
They have not been aggressive. But they have been used in the past as an invasion route to Russia. A sad fact of geography, not one particularly of Ukraine as aggressor. NATO has very obviously for decades cast Russia as an enemy. So it seems quite logical for Russia to be concerned about a bordering country to join NATO. As I have said before. What if Canada or Mexico decided to join the Russian federation and host military bases and missiles. The U.S. would take care of business. Fifty two stars on the flag. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6860 "2022-07-30T02:55:41Z")
I am so tempted to go to the “What about” retorts. But when other countries perceived to be on the right side, do the same things, and worse. It is just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6861 "2022-07-30T03:00:25Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > They have not been aggressive. But they have been used in the past as an invasion route to Russia. A sad fact of geography, not one particularly of Ukraine as aggressor. This is completely ridiculous. By this argument, virtually every country in the world is justified in invading any neighbour they choose. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6862 "2022-07-30T03:10:04Z")
As I noted, NATO, which had dangled membership to Ukraine, and that some governments of Ukraine wished to join, does consider Russia an enemy. The same situations do not exist in all countries. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6863 "2022-07-30T03:13:52Z")
As recently as 2012, Mitt Romney was widely mocked for calling Russia an enemy. That this situation has completely reversed itself is solely the fault of Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2022, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6864 "2022-07-30T03:15:08Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > So every nation can peel off a layer of the citizens and land on their borders for this? No, only the ones as paranoid as Russia. The US doesn’t feel the need to have a buffer zone with Canada or Mexico. But if by chance we did, demanding that _they_ give up territory for _our_ paranoia would be crazy. (Actually, we do have some small buffer zones, and they are on US territory. But it’s not quite the same thing.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=339) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=341)