# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 344
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6925 "2022-08-02T19:18:17Z")
From the linked article: > [@](#): > > As time went on, rumours swirled in Moscow political circles about Medvedev’s increasing alcohol consumption. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2022, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6926 "2022-08-02T19:41:13Z")
The core problem of posting while impaired is the near-total disinhibition. You say all the stupid, hateful, face-palming shit you can normally keep locked up in the howling void between the ears. (Yes, I’m looking at you, Mr. Medvedev.) Still, it’s refreshing to see what he really thinks. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6927 "2022-08-03T03:49:50Z")
I think it’s significant that Ukraine is mounting an attack to retake Kherson. NPR August 2 2022 [Ukraine’s army is waging its 1st major offensive against Russia to retake Kherson](https://www.npr.org/2022/08/02/1115267046/ukraines-army-is-waging-its-1st-major-offensive-against-russia-to-retake-kherson) - Ukraine’s army is waging its first major offensive against the Russians. It’s pushing to retake a strategic city in the south called Kherson. The fighting is brutal, and Ukrainian soldiers are paying a terrible price to liberate a vast region of occupied territory near the Black Sea. NPR’s Brian Mann traveled close to the frontlines to talk with those soldiers. And just a word of caution - his story contains moments of violence that may be disturbing for some listeners. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6928 "2022-08-03T04:16:37Z")
The HIMARS have had up and down effectiveness. At first they were very effective, even when launched alone. The Russians had to add more advanced air defense systems. Or upgrade older ones. That helped them take out more HIMARS launched missiles. But the Ukrainians then employed a good tactic. They would launch a mass of more dumb missiles. Making the Russians use up defense missiles, then launch the more accurate HIMARS. More got through and accurately hit the targets. Overall the HIMARS are allowing the Ukraines to get more hits deeper in the Russian held areas. But war is a game of oneupmanship. If the Ukrainians can keep up a supply of the dumb missiles to cloak the smart ones, the HIMARS will continue to be a problem for the Russians. Again it comes down to supply, to enable tactics. But also, the Russians are very intently seeking out the HIMARS. So the Ukraine forces need to hit and then move them fast. I feel this post is in the spirit of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6929 "2022-08-03T05:40:17Z")
The Russians may have placed up to 30 BTG groups along the front line near Kherson. If true, this could mean they are going to either make a big push or are preparing defense. The Ukrainians have been building forces in this area. They have announced a major counter offensive is coming. Seems the Russians have taken this seriously. I had to look up what a BTG is. It is quite a large force unit. > **[Battalion tactical group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battalion_tactical_group)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > A battalion tactical group (Russian: Батальонная тактическая группа, batal'onnaya takticheskaya gruppa), abbreviated as BTG, is a combined-arms manoeuvre unit deployed by the Russian Army that is kept at a high level of readiness. A BTG typically comprises a battalion (typically mechanised infantry) of two to four companies reinforced with air-defence, artillery, engineering, and logistical support units, formed from a garrisoned army brigade. A ... ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6930 "2022-08-03T07:32:58Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > But also, the Russians are very intently seeking out the HIMARS The head of the U.S. military said a couple of weeks ago that no HIMARS have been destroyed. All photo and video evidence Russia has thus far presented of claimed destroyed HIMARS have been debunked. > [@Kedikat](#): > > I had to look up what a BTG is. It is quite a large force unit. Actually, it’s the opposite - it’s a very small organisational unit, and deliberately so. It combines many elements, such as mechanised infantry, tanks, rocket artillery, air-defence, artillery, engineering and logistics into a single small-sized tactical unit. It’s like a miniaturized division, with the intention that it will have greater tactical flexibility. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6931 "2022-08-03T07:49:20Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > The HIMARS have had up and down effectiveness. Yes, in that the missiles fire up and rain down on Russian supply depots, command centers etc. > [@Kedikat](#): > > The Russians may have placed up to 30 BTG groups along the front line near Kherson. In other words, around three divisions. ---
**Author:** ![Kedikat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kedikat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kedikat)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6932 "2022-08-03T07:50:39Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > That helped them take out more HIMARS launched missiles. Note I did not say HIMARS systems. So far Russia has said they have hit 6 systems. But it is not confirmed. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6933 "2022-08-03T08:25:38Z")
That’s kind of a nebulous statement. A light howitzer artillery piece with its associated logistics vehicles is a system. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6934 "2022-08-03T10:36:47Z")
> [@Kedikat](#): > > Russia has said Russia says a lot of things. We should ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6935 "2022-08-03T13:56:38Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Russia says a lot of things. We should ignore them. It’s a war. Outside of what can be physically observed by third parties, you’re better to ignore anything coming from any of the involved governments, except budgets, foreign aid, and recruitment laws. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6936 "2022-08-03T16:54:32Z")
Current US military aid to Ukraine as of 1 Aug (small 2 page pdf).  Over 1,400 Stinger anti-aircraft systems;  Over 6,500 Javelin anti-armor systems;  Over 20,000 other anti-armor systems;  Over 700 Switchblade Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems;  126 155mm Howitzers and up to 486,000 155mm artillery rounds;  72,000 105mm artillery rounds;  126 Tactical Vehicles to tow 155mm Howitzers;  22 Tactical Vehicles to recover equipment;  16 High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems and ammunition;  Four Command Post vehicles;  Two National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile Systems (NASAMS);  20 Mi-17 helicopters;  Counter-battery systems;  Hundreds of Armored High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicles;  200 M113 Armored Personnel Carriers;  Over 10,000 grenade launchers and small arms;  Over 59,000,000 rounds of small arms ammunition;  75,000 sets of body armor and helmets;  Approximately 700 Phoenix Ghost Tactical Unmanned Aerial Systems;  Laser-guided rocket systems;  Puma Unmanned Aerial Systems;  Unmanned Coastal Defense Vessels;  26 counter-artillery radars;  Four counter-mortar radars;  Four air surveillance radars;  Two harpoon coastal defense systems;  18 coastal and riverine patrol boats;  M18A1 Claymore anti-personnel munitions;  C-4 explosives, demolition munitions, and demolition equipment for obstacle clearing;  Tactical secure communications systems;  Thousands of night vision devices, thermal imagery systems, optics, and laser rangefinders;  Commercial satellite imagery services;  Explosive ordnance disposal protective gear;  Chemical, Biological, Radiological, Nuclear protective equipment;  Medical supplies to include first aid kits;  Electronic jamming equipment;  Field equipment and spare parts;  Funding for training, maintenance, and sustainment. > **[UKRAINE-FACT-SHEET.PDF](https://media.defense.gov/2022/Aug/02/2003047740/-1/-1/0/UKRAINE-FACT-SHEET.PDF)** > > 133.02 KB ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6937 "2022-08-04T00:11:27Z")
> **[Lindsey Graham gives 'shout-out' to Putin as Senate votes on adding Finland...](https://www.yahoo.com/news/lindsey-graham-gives-shout-putin-211322899.html)** > > Russia's invasion of Ukraine pushed Finland and Sweden, historically neutral countries, to pursue NATO membership. > One person that I want to thank, that I usually don’t give a whole big shout out to, is President Putin from Russia. Without you, we wouldn’t be here. You’ve done more to strengthen NATO than any speech I could hope to give. What we’ve been able to accomplish here through Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is to remind everybody in the world — when it comes to bullies, you better stand up to them before it’s too late. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6938 "2022-08-04T01:27:46Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > is to remind everybody in the world — when it comes to bullies, you better stand up to them before it’s too late.-Lindsay Graham There is much that could be said about this line, but this is probably not the right thread for it, but I think most of you will understand… To stay on topic, I read the article in Business Insider and was struck by this: > [@](#): > > The Senate is expected to overwhelmingly approve of the resolution on Sweden and Finland’s NATO accession on Wednesday, **with only one Republican — Sen. Josh Hawley of Missouri — planning to vote “no.”** Bolding mine. I would love to see his reasoning for voting no on this… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6939 "2022-08-04T01:34:35Z")
And of course I had to go answer my own question. This article seems to contain most of it: [https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3587073-hawley-is-only-senator-to-vote-against-finland-sweden-nato-membership/](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3587073-hawley-is-only-senator-to-vote-against-finland-sweden-nato-membership/) > [@](#): > > Hawley’s vote against the resolution did not come as a surprise. He had announced his intent to vote against the resolution earlier this week, outlining his opposition in [an op-ed](https://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-i-won%E2%80%99t-vote-add-sweden-and-finland-nato-203925) published by The National Interest. > > He said he does not believe the U.S. should expand its security commitments in Europe, because America’s “greatest foreign adversary” is China. and… > [@](#): > > The Missouri Republican elaborated on his stance in remarks on the Senate floor Wednesday, arguing that adding Finland and Sweden to NATO is not in the national security interest of the U.S. > > “Finland and Sweden want to expand NATO because it is in their national security interest to do so, and fair enough. The question that should properly be before us, however, is, is it in the United States’s interests to do so? Because that’s what American foreign policy is supposed to be about, I thought,” Hawley said. > > “Expanding NATO will require more United States forces in Europe, more manpower, more firepower, more resources, more spending. And not just now but over the long haul. But our greatest foreign adversary is not in Europe. Our greatest foreign adversary is in Asia. And when it comes to countering that adversary, we are behind the game. I’m talking, of course, about China. The communist government of Beijing has adopted a policy of imperialism,” he added. He’s not massively wrong, but he is a long, long way from being correct. IMHO as always, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6940 "2022-08-04T01:41:41Z")
Well, there’s a huge population of Scandinavian descent around here. (Russians and Ukrainians too.) Maybe in ~~Misery~~ Missouri, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6941 "2022-08-04T05:22:00Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > He’s not massively wrong, but he is a long, long way from being correct. Hawley’s implicit argument is “the US is a weak country that can think about only one adversary at a time.” Weird thing for an ostensible patriot to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6942 "2022-08-04T09:55:57Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I think it’s significant that Ukraine is mounting an attack to retake Kherson. Good, if true. You don’t win a war by halting the enemy’s offensives - you win it by launching successful offensives of your own. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6943 "2022-08-04T12:24:02Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > There is much that could be said about this line, but this is probably not the right thread for it, but I think most of you will understand… Yeah, that cracked me up. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2022, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/6944 "2022-08-04T12:37:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > when it comes to bullies, you better stand up to them before it’s too late. And then he voted ‘present’ on admitting Finland and Sweden. A giant of the Senate, truly. Better than my senator Hawley, but that is an extremely low bar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=343) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=345)